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Old 01-15-2009, 01:38 PM
 
178 posts, read 348,821 times
Reputation: 73

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Here is some more insight on this subject to study...

The Scripture presents women as full participants with men in the religious and social life of the congregation. In the Old Testament, in the fifth year of Jeremiah's prophetic ministry, the priests went to Huldah the prophetess for counsel (2 Kings 22:13-14). Deborah was a judge and a prophetess (Judges 4:4). Joel predicted that in the New Testament "the sons and daughters should prophesy" (Joel 2:28), and Peter declared that this was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Ac 2:4). Women served as musicians and attendants at the tabernacle and temple (1 Samuel 2:22, 1 Chronicles 25:5-6, Psalm 68:24-25). In the New Testament, Anna, a prophetess, served God in the temple and spake God's Truth to all those who came to her (Luke 2:36-38). Philip the evangelist, had four daughters which did prophesy (Acts 21:8-9). Women prayed aloud and prophesied in the congregation (1 Corinthians 11:5). They labored side by side with Paul and other workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:3). In the closing chapter of Romans, Paul begins his greetings and commendations with women, and he includes several other women subsequently in the chapter (Romans 16:1-5, 6, 12, 13, 15). Widows (Acts 9:39) may have been an organized body for service in the congregation. But women did not serve as priests in the Old Testament (Exodus 28:1, Numbers 3:1-13) nor did they serve in the leadership/teaching role of elder or pastor in the New Testament (1 Timothy 2:11-14; 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; 1 Corinthians 14:33-36).

The role of the priest was seen in the Scripture as representing the head of the household. During patriarchal times, the male head of the household or tribe functioned as the priest, representing his household to God (Genesis 8:20; 22:13; Job 1:5). Later, God appointed the tribe of Levi as priests instead of the first-born son or head of each family (Numbers 3:6-13). "The Levites shall be mine, for all the first-born are mine" (Numbers 3:12-13). A woman could minister as a prophet, communicating God's will, but a male was appointed to the priestly role because the male was viewed by Scripture writers as the "first-born" of the human family (Genesis 2:7,21-23) to whom God assigned the headship role in the home and in the congregation. The New Testament continued this concept, appointing representative males as elders or pastors. The New Testament practice ran contrary to the culture of the time, since most pagan religions had priestesses as well as priests. The New Testament practice was based on the divine revelation in the Old Testament (1 Timothy 2:12-13), pointing to a headship role established at creation for man to fulfill at home and in the household of faith. It was God's plan, of course, that every individual should be a "priest" in Old Testament times (Exodus 19:6) as in our own times (1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6), but this was as individuals in our individual relationship to God, not as ordained priests representing the community.

As to the question of co-equal and subordinate, there is no reason to assume that a contradiction exists between Genesis 1 and 2. The author of Genesis obviously saw the two accounts as complementary, not contradictory, or he would not have put them together. When one recognizes the different purposes of chapters one and two, the apparent tension resolves. Chapter one portrays man and woman in relation to God. Here both are equal, for both are created in the image of God and both are subordinate to God. Chapter two portrays man and woman in relation to one another, and reveals a functional subordination of woman to man.


Genesis 1 and 2 are not contradictory but complementary. The principle of equality in being and subordination in function not only resolves the apparent tension between Genesis 1 and 2, but also explains why women are presented in the Scripture as equal to men in personhood and yet subordinate to men in certain roles. The apostle Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 11:3, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
The concept of headship does not denote qualitative or essential difference. It denotes responsibility and accountability, not superiority. Paul is not a male chauvinist. On the contrary, he argues here for the equality of the sexes in personal worth, but distinction in function and responsibility.
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Old 01-15-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 7,626,443 times
Reputation: 3759
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Marian I understand you are older than I.. but you aren't that old.

The first wave of the feminist movement was in the late 19th century with women's suffrage.

Please clarify what you mean.

Are you referring instead to the 1960's?
Yes, I am referring to the 1960's and all generations afterward.
I was born in the early 1930s ! And all through my life, until the movement in the 60s, I knew very few families where the husband had 'bailed out'. Even after that, it was not common among the people that I associated with.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:58 PM
 
4,510 posts, read 4,113,009 times
Reputation: 1501
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRAMERCAT View Post
Where exactly in the Bible again, does it say that a woman cannot teach?
I didn't get an answer yet.
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:44 PM
 
178 posts, read 348,821 times
Reputation: 73
Did you read this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
Here is some more insight on this subject to study...

The Scripture presents women as full participants with men in the religious and social life of the congregation. In the Old Testament, in the fifth year of Jeremiah's prophetic ministry, the priests went to Huldah the prophetess for counsel (2 Kings 22:13-14). Deborah was a judge and a prophetess (Judges 4:4). Joel predicted that in the New Testament "the sons and daughters should prophesy" (Joel 2:28), and Peter declared that this was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost (Ac 2:4). Women served as musicians and attendants at the tabernacle and temple (1 Samuel 2:22, 1 Chronicles 25:5-6, Psalm 68:24-25). In the New Testament, Anna, a prophetess, served God in the temple and spake God's Truth to all those who came to her (Luke 2:36-38). Philip the evangelist, had four daughters which did prophesy (Acts 21:8-9). Women prayed aloud and prophesied in the congregation (1 Corinthians 11:5). They labored side by side with Paul and other workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:3). In the closing chapter of Romans, Paul begins his greetings and commendations with women, and he includes several other women subsequently in the chapter (Romans 16:1-5, 6, 12, 13, 15). Widows (Acts 9:39) may have been an organized body for service in the congregation. But women did not serve as priests in the Old Testament (Exodus 28:1, Numbers 3:1-13) nor did they serve in the leadership/teaching role of elder or pastor in the New Testament (1 Timothy 2:11-14; 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9; 1 Corinthians 14:33-36).

The role of the priest was seen in the Scripture as representing the head of the household. During patriarchal times, the male head of the household or tribe functioned as the priest, representing his household to God (Genesis 8:20; 22:13; Job 1:5). Later, God appointed the tribe of Levi as priests instead of the first-born son or head of each family (Numbers 3:6-13). "The Levites shall be mine, for all the first-born are mine" (Numbers 3:12-13). A woman could minister as a prophet, communicating God's will, but a male was appointed to the priestly role because the male was viewed by Scripture writers as the "first-born" of the human family (Genesis 2:7,21-23) to whom God assigned the headship role in the home and in the congregation. The New Testament continued this concept, appointing representative males as elders or pastors. The New Testament practice ran contrary to the culture of the time, since most pagan religions had priestesses as well as priests. The New Testament practice was based on the divine revelation in the Old Testament (1 Timothy 2:12-13), pointing to a headship role established at creation for man to fulfill at home and in the household of faith. It was God's plan, of course, that every individual should be a "priest" in Old Testament times (Exodus 19:6) as in our own times (1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6), but this was as individuals in our individual relationship to God, not as ordained priests representing the community.

As to the question of co-equal and subordinate, there is no reason to assume that a contradiction exists between Genesis 1 and 2. The author of Genesis obviously saw the two accounts as complementary, not contradictory, or he would not have put them together. When one recognizes the different purposes of chapters one and two, the apparent tension resolves. Chapter one portrays man and woman in relation to God. Here both are equal, for both are created in the image of God and both are subordinate to God. Chapter two portrays man and woman in relation to one another, and reveals a functional subordination of woman to man.


Genesis 1 and 2 are not contradictory but complementary. The principle of equality in being and subordination in function not only resolves the apparent tension between Genesis 1 and 2, but also explains why women are presented in the Scripture as equal to men in personhood and yet subordinate to men in certain roles. The apostle Paul wrote:
1 Corinthians 11:3, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
The concept of headship does not denote qualitative or essential difference. It denotes responsibility and accountability, not superiority. Paul is not a male chauvinist. On the contrary, he argues here for the equality of the sexes in personal worth, but distinction in function and responsibility.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2009, 03:01 PM
 
16,437 posts, read 19,129,232 times
Reputation: 9518
Deborah was a Judge, which was the same as Queen. She was not a priestess. Only pagan religions had priestesses. Only a man from the tribe of Levi could be a priest under Judaic law.. Women can be prophets, but they cannot be a bishop, deacon or elder, ie. a preacher. Women can teach women and children in their church, but not men. Women are to remain silent in church and if they have questions, wait until they get home and ask their husbands. These are the teachings of the Bible. If we cannot accept God's teachings how can we be Christians? Society changes but God does not.
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Old 01-18-2009, 04:13 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
Deborah was a Judge, which was the same as Queen. She was not a priestess. Only pagan religions had priestesses. Only a man from the tribe of Levi could be a priest under Judaic law.. Women can be prophets, but they cannot be a bishop, deacon or elder, ie. a preacher. Women can teach women and children in their church, but not men. Women are to remain silent in church and if they have questions, wait until they get home and ask their husbands. These are the teachings of the Bible. If we cannot accept God's teachings how can we be Christians? Society changes but God does not.
People like to think our society is more enlightened and sophisticated therefore can question God's word.
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Old 01-18-2009, 04:23 PM
 
40,043 posts, read 26,720,362 times
Reputation: 6048
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
People like to think our society is more enlightened and sophisticated therefore can question God's word.
Not really . . . just the unenlightened unsophisticated barbaric interpretations of God's word recorded by primitive minds in primitive societies.
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:06 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not really . . . just the unenlightened unsophisticated barbaric interpretations of God's word recorded by primitive minds in primitive societies.
Curious. If we are barbaric in our interpretation of God's word because it written by fallible man, my question is how can you believe the words of Jesus since it was also written by fallible man? therefore your interpretation of Jesus is wrong also? if not under what authority can you justify this and why can't we also? Do you have a 1-800 direct line to Jesus?
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,901,271 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Curious. If we are barbaric in our interpretation of God's word because it written by fallible man, my question is how can you believe the words of Jesus since it was also written by fallible man?
Because it was verified by the Spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
therefore your interpretation of Jesus is wrong also? if not under what authority can you justify this and why can't we also?
You can. Take yourself into a private spot and pray. Fasting helps too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Do you have a 1-800 direct line to Jesus?
Yes. It's called prayer
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:17 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
Because it was verified by the Spirit

You can. Take yourself into a private spot and pray. Fasting helps too.
Yes. It's called prayer
Sorry Goodpasture but the Holy Spirit is not enough because we ONLY have your word because the Holy Spirit may tell me something totally different. We know this can't be since He is the same.

Secondly we talk to God through prayer. Prayer is NOT a two way conversation.
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