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Old 01-13-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,577 posts, read 21,742,479 times
Reputation: 18152

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Cheapshot and not accurate

Well now I know where you stand, Thank you. just probing a lil'
Good luck in your studies Fundy, I understand you are a young christian and I certainly have to respect your zealousness in defending what you believe..Listen to the holy spirit, pray often and continue your bible studies along with a study on the history of the culture, politics and society of those times and you may wind up a great evangelist some day..You certainly have the zest for it A little love and respect also goes a looooong way. Learn that..

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-13-2009 at 10:00 AM..
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
142 posts, read 446,848 times
Reputation: 63
In my church, the fact that the pastor (as opposed to a lay member acting as the spirt moves him or her) administers the sacraments and preaches the Word means that he or she has some amount of spiritual authority. Equality in society, church, government and everything else is just a given in my Church and was settled over 70 years ago, thankfully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
They can still do all that, they just can not have have spiritual authority in the church. BIG DIFFERENCE DUDE!
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:00 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,804,364 times
Reputation: 46078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
What does the bible say? You find me a verse that allows women preachers and I will agree with you. I have heard excellent homosexual preachers as well. Did God call them as well?
Actually, at the end of Romans, Paul named Phoebe to be the Deacon of the church of Rome (And the earlier texts say Deacon, not 'helper' as some of the less-honest, agenda-driven translations try to suggest) after her serving in a different church. He also instructs the Roman congregation to do what she requires of them.

Now, if you read elsewhere in Paul's second letter to Timothy, he states flatly that there are only two church offices: Bishop and Deacon, with Deacon serving the role that a priest or a pastor would today.

So, if Paul was precise in his language, why would he carefully outline the duties of a Deacon in one epistle, and appoint a woman as Deacon in another letter if he didn't mean for her to lead the congregation? Further, he appointed Phoebe as deacon over the church in the Ancient World's most important city. No one really has a good explanation as to why this is. And, of course, in Paul's letter to Philemon, he clearly states that there is no distinction between man or woman in the eyes of God and his church.

With that in mind, I think that Paul was quite comfortable with women in the pulpit.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:05 AM
 
28,905 posts, read 46,804,364 times
Reputation: 46078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Even if Phoebe is considered a "deaconess", that does not indicate that Phoebe was a teacher in the church. "able to teach" was given as a qualification for elders, but not deacons.

(Timothy 3:1-13) 3 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not...
Actually, the feminine form of the word "deacon" did not emerge in Greek until centuries after Paul wrote his epistle. So Paul made no distinction between deacon and deaconess. You're splitting hairs where there aren't any to split. And the passage you cite from Timothy had more to do with monogamy vs. polygamy.
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,862,447 times
Reputation: 1983
I know a women I used to go to school with. She is a "Captain" in the Salvation Army, and both her and her husband (also a Captain) preach in their local S.A. church. Would she be considered to be a pastor? I don't think they call them pastors in the S.A. (?)

Bud
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Old 01-13-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: USA
322 posts, read 657,787 times
Reputation: 117
I'd like to ring this bell one more time----

Acorrding to the Apostle Paul, the reasons for men ruling over women, go back to Eve in the garden. It was not the result of the gospel being presented at that time in society, in such a way, as to fit into that society.

For example, JESUS over-ruled the Jews about divorce, telling them about the Law of GOD from the beginning.

Women who feel threatened by the rules of GOD for Church meeting conduct and men who view women as second class creatures, are both wrong.

We simply have all been given orders, by GOD and not man. We all will be rewarded for obeying GOD. The woman who remains silent at the general assembly meeting of the Church, will be blessed. She is far more spiritual than the blabbermouth lady in a pulpit!

The spiritual lady saint can prophesy, but not at the general assembly meeting, which normally only happens once or twice per week for maybe 2 hours or less. Some, if not most, of the men are also to be silent. But they may speak if it is in order and for edification.

At no time anywhere is a woman permitted to exercise authority over a man or teach a man. But a women saint has so much otherwise that she can be doing for the glory of GOD, so as to simply not have time to do it all. So why should she fuss about that? And men should not think women inferior. CHRIST is our common strength.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,906,943 times
Reputation: 701
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedrsaved View Post
I'd like to ring this bell one more time----

Acorrding to the Apostle Paul, the reasons for men ruling over women, go back to Eve in the garden. It was not the result of the gospel being presented at that time in society, in such a way, as to fit into that society.

For example, JESUS over-ruled the Jews about divorce, telling them about the Law of GOD from the beginning.

Women who feel threatened by the rules of GOD for Church meeting conduct and men who view women as second class creatures, are both wrong.

We simply have all been given orders, by GOD and not man. We all will be rewarded for obeying GOD. The woman who remains silent at the general assembly meeting of the Church, will be blessed. She is far more spiritual than the blabbermouth lady in a pulpit!

The spiritual lady saint can prophesy, but not at the general assembly meeting, which normally only happens once or twice per week for maybe 2 hours or less. Some, if not most, of the men are also to be silent. But they may speak if it is in order and for edification.

At no time anywhere is a woman permitted to exercise authority over a man or teach a man. But a women saint has so much otherwise that she can be doing for the glory of GOD, so as to simply not have time to do it all. So why should she fuss about that? And men should not think women inferior. CHRIST is our common strength.
I'll tell you there are some pretty blabbermouth men at the pulpit. Blah Blah Blah Blah
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:24 PM
 
342 posts, read 469,131 times
Reputation: 101
It seems to me based on experience and the scriptures that some women have very much to contribute teaching and are "blessed" with ministry roles in the church.......However I do not believe that God intended them to be apostles, elders or ministers.......Why did Jesus pick 12 men to be the apostles.......WHY did Jesus not sucumb to socal pressures of his times and pick differently........Why did Jesus come to earth as a man.......Why was a man the first created human being......seems like a recurring theme; (yet Jesus was born into the flesh thru a virgin WOMAN)...........men are NOT more important than women......God views Men and Women with equal regard but he obviously intends "different roles" for them....and....NOT all men should be elders....Women who insist on formal preaching and pastoral positions should question their motives......We all benefit when we follow God's way......He has a role for each of us to play and one is not more important than another in his eyes......The apostles argued among each other as to who was the most important.......Jesus said whomever wants to be the greatest must be the servant of all......the KING of the universe washed the dirty feet of men......THIS SHOULD TEACH US ALL SOMETHING........we are all servants of GOD and each other
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:30 PM
 
342 posts, read 469,131 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedrsaved View Post
I'd like to ring this bell one more time----

Acorrding to the Apostle Paul, the reasons for men ruling over women, go back to Eve in the garden. It was not the result of the gospel being presented at that time in society, in such a way, as to fit into that society.

For example, JESUS over-ruled the Jews about divorce, telling them about the Law of GOD from the beginning.

Women who feel threatened by the rules of GOD for Church meeting conduct and men who view women as second class creatures, are both wrong.

We simply have all been given orders, by GOD and not man. We all will be rewarded for obeying GOD. The woman who remains silent at the general assembly meeting of the Church, will be blessed. She is far more spiritual than the blabbermouth lady in a pulpit!

The spiritual lady saint can prophesy, but not at the general assembly meeting, which normally only happens once or twice per week for maybe 2 hours or less. Some, if not most, of the men are also to be silent. But they may speak if it is in order and for edification.

At no time anywhere is a woman permitted to exercise authority over a man or teach a man. But a women saint has so much otherwise that she can be doing for the glory of GOD, so as to simply not have time to do it all. So why should she fuss about that? And men should not think women inferior. CHRIST is our common strength.
AMEN Brother
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:35 AM
 
302 posts, read 477,384 times
Reputation: 82
Default A woman teaches men

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am talking about church and the New Covenant.
Why are you refusing the authority of the Old Testament to establish doctrine on this issue when you correctly use 2Timothy 3:16 for other matters?

Ahem! Please pay attention to the word of God.

2 Chr 34:20-35:1

20 "And the king commanded Hilkiah [The High Priest], and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king's, saying,


21 Go, inquire of the LORD for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD, to do after all that is written in this book.

22 And Hilkiah [The High Priest], and they that the king had appointed, WENT TO HULDAH THE PROPHETESS, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvath, the son of Hasrah, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college and they spake to her to that effect.

23 And she answered them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell ye the man that sent you to me,

24 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah: ..."

1. HULDAH taught men what the Lord had to say.
2. Now, you also have been taught by a woman.

Donna Kupp

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
www.freetruth.info
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