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Old 01-09-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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aka "Excommunication". Do you agree with it or not? Even if it's in the bible? Why don't you?

(Matthew 18:15-20)
15 “If your brother sins against you,a go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 
18 “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bed loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Where I believe many misunderstand these verses is that all must be done in Gods will. If two agree and it is not Gods will then it is futile to ask for something God has already said he would not give.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:16 AM
 
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I was thinking of starting a thread on this topic because of some of the discussions going on, and did a search and... presto! Fundy beat me to it!

I think this is a very good subject. How was it practiced? If it should be practiced today, how should it be practiced? Is it relevant to churches today?

I have some thoughts... and what are yours?
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,858,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
aka "Excommunication". Do you agree with it or not? Even if it's in the bible? Why don't you?

(Matthew 18:15-20)
15 “If your brother sins against you,a go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. 
18 “I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will bed loosed in heaven.
19 “Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.”

Good topic Fundy!
I do think "excommunication" (as we call it today) is sometimes neccessary. There are those who call themselves Christian, but who would introduce grievious sin into the church body...were it not that they soon get kicked out because of the sin. The Bible may not call it "excommunication", but nevertheless there are examples of it. Here's one the Apostle Paul talked about:

1 Corinthians 5
1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

They were to be "booted" out. Excluded from fellowship. Not associated with. Why? So that they would not have the spiritual covering and protection of the church. Why? So that Satan, seeing the opportunity, will attack them for the destruction of their body. Why? So that their spirit might be saved (eventually). And...also to keep this grievous sin out of the body of Christ...to not keep company with such persons...because we are to be a holy people...we are to be seperate from the world and its evils...not share in it.

Q: Sitting here wondering: how could such a vile person ever have the possibility of his spirit getting saved? A lot of churches today would just boot him out, with the foregone conclusion that the man is surely going to hell, no question about it. What do you think?

Bud

Last edited by BudinAk; 02-18-2009 at 09:41 PM..
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:27 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,891 posts, read 3,980,500 times
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Sounds like LEGALISM to me
Back years ago, when I was making the claim to be a Christian, I remember a heated argument because some church told it's members not to visit a certain vacation destination. My thought was that the leaders of this church needed a big bottle of MYOB given to them.
I could use myself as a hypothetical example to show the facetiousness of such actions. Suppose I were to be banend from a church? So what. There are more to choose from. And on top of that, since I do not recognize any authority of any church (Legal, ecclesiastical, or spiritual or otherwise) WHY would any rules or legalities include me anyway? SO church Discipline? In my honest opinion, there is no such thing. It is an illusion, an often negative one, which only needs to be purged from the collective consciousness of our reality.
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Old 02-19-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
2,345 posts, read 3,905,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Good topic Fundy!
I do think "excommunication" (as we call it today) is sometimes neccessary. There are those who call themselves Christian, but who would introduce grievious sin into the church body...were it not that they soon get kicked out because of the sin. The Bible may not call it "excommunication", but nevertheless there are examples of it. Here's one the Apostle Paul talked about:

1 Corinthians 5
1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

They were to be "booted" out. Excluded from fellowship. Not associated with. Why? So that they would not have the spiritual covering and protection of the church. Why? So that Satan, seeing the opportunity, will attack them for the destruction of their body. Why? So that their spirit might be saved (eventually). And...also to keep this grievous sin out of the body of Christ...to not keep company with such persons...because we are to be a holy people...we are to be seperate from the world and its evils...not share in it.

Q: Sitting here wondering: how could such a vile person ever have the possibility of his spirit getting saved? A lot of churches today would just boot him out, with the foregone conclusion that the man is surely going to hell, no question about it. What do you think?

Bud
Well didn't god use lots of "vile" people?! What about Solomon?! All those wives and extra women....ewww....what a creep! And he's supposed to be wise?! HA! I feel ill when I read the song of Solomon! I mean which woman was he talking about?! Did he even remember all of their names?!
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