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Old 08-31-2011, 07:59 AM
 
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Of all the questions I've ever questioned Yahua with this is the one that has given me the most trouble in the past. After much thought with prayer it really does make sense.

From the teachings of the Messiah we can clearly see that this earth is God's field, where He "grows" His children, if you will. This is where we are "harvested" from. It's also clear that He knew we would rebel against Him. Even before He created this place, He knew. He also says His plan of salvation existed before He created the world. We also know that we have the God given right to individual choice. In order for love to exist, we have to have a choice.

Well, it's also clear that even in heaven the angels have a choice, and Satan along with 1/3 of the heavenly angels made a terrible choice. These heavenly eternal beings were decieved by Satan and rebelled against God Almighty. Satan accually thought that he could be greater than God, or even equal with God. Satan accually thought he could defeat God, and is decieving people today with these same thoughts. Think about this, when you say you can defeat God you are accually saying that you can defeat life. God IS life, and to say that you can defeat God is saying that you wish to live no longer, because without God there is no life. God IS life.

God doesn't want this to happen again. It's not for nothing, for some insignificant plan, that Yahushua laid His heavenly majesty down and dwelt here among us in human form and suffered so much. He really did this and we will never be able to understand the depths of how much He suffered for us - even in the garden, sweating drops of blood.

One thing is for sure. Everyone who makes it from here to there, is highly likely to never become like Satan. Everyone who makes it from here to there will have grown to become a true worshipper of Yahua and will probably never think to overthrow Elohim. That's what your life here and now is all about. When we think of the Messiah's ministry here on earth we find there is one thing that really upset Him, and there is one thing that really pleased Him. It wasn't hard for Him to understand how sinful we are, but it seemed to blow His mind that after so long with the disciples and after so many miraculous things He did, we still had a hard time believing and having faith without any doubt. Lazurus was dead in the tomb for four days, and I think, of course they would have doubted Yahushua was about to raise him from the grave. Of course it would have been hard to imagine that. But these very thoughts of doubt and misunderstanding greatly upset the Almighty. Then on the other hand, we can also see the examples of what greatly pleased Him. He was shocked at the faith of some, and even said, "go your way, your faith has healed you", not even taking credit for the healing. We do know He is the healer of course. He always made sure to tell them, "now stop sinning", or, "stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you". However, the point is He is looking for those who worship Him in spirit and in truth, and He expects us to grow into a complete trust in Him, no matter what things may seem.

Anyone who doubts the goodness of God and thinks in any way that somehow God is not trustworthy, and anyone who thinks that one day they will take the place of God, anyone who thinks they will one day be on that same kind of throne creating other people and being worshipped, will of course not make it in. Only those who understand that it's all for His good pleasure and only He will be worshipped for all of eternity will be harvested from this earth to live before His throne, forever.
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Southern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Well, it's also clear that even in heaven the angels have a choice, and Satan along with 1/3 of the heavenly angels made a terrible choice. These heavenly eternal beings were decieved by Satan and rebelled against God Almighty. Satan accually thought that he could be greater than God, or even equal with God. Satan accually thought he could defeat God, and is decieving people today with these same thoughts. Think about this, when you say you can defeat God you are accually saying that you can defeat life. God IS life, and to say that you can defeat God is saying that you wish to live no longer, because without God there is no life. God IS life.
Just thought you might like to know... there is NO Satan, Devil, Lucifer, or fallen Angels. Once an Angel, always an Angel, because their choice is not only to Love, it is of the Highest and Holiest of Loves. It is the Essence of God... His Divine Love, which every Angel possesses to a degree which makes them Divine and immortal. No one who is without this Essence will ever step one foot into God's highest Heavens... the Celestial Heavens.

From Jesus' True Teachings:

"The book that you read is a snare and a lie, for there are no angels who have become devils as the author of that book declares. Never were there any angels who through ambition or any other reason revolted against the power of government of God, and thereby lost their estate as angels. Never was there any Lucifer, and never were there any angels who were thrown from the battlements of heaven into hell, as it has been written and as I told you before, there are no devils and no Satan considered as real persons and fallen angels."

There are no devils and no satan (http://tinyurl.com/3qtrg86 - broken link)
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:52 AM
 
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Default The Father Is Looking For Something

John 4:23
But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.


Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Yahua, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.


This was Satan's whole problem. He just didn't get it. He was not thankfull and didn't realize it was because of God the he even existed and didn't want to give Yahua the glory for his existence. He hates the fact that it's all about God. Everything that exists is for the glory of God. But to those who really know Him and love Him, this is the beauty of life. We are very thankfull that we do exist and it's all about Him. We exist to worship God and we have no problem with this fact. If you make it from this world to the next, you will have realized and accepted this fact.

Worthy is the Lamb. I bless you all in the name of Yahushua... So Be It


Agnus Dei - Michael W. Smith - YouTube
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Old 08-31-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
John 4:23
But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way.
By allowing Satan to be around for as long (much less not allowing Satan to come about in the first place), this version of the Creator you speak of comes across as a micro-manager and with absolutely no control over the creation. Or perhaps, this version is about playing games with His creation being the pawns, so when they disobey they are punished and tortured?
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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Initial OP question (before sidetrack) is an interesting one that has been asked throughout the ages by God-seeking people. In the overall context of our loving, yet, all powerful/knowing God, the answer is not all that complicated: God allows it because He loves us and seeks a genuine love-based relationship with us. While we do not fully understand 'why' God loves the man He created in this way, ...scripture fully supports this principle.

Consider this: Alternatives/choices must exist in order to truly have love (or loving relationship). One cannot simply demand true love from a position of power and/or if one simply loves 'blindly' in dutiful, submissive obeissance ... is it really love? The same principle holds true throughout creation: Can light truly exist without darkness?; Can good exist without evil? Can truth exist without lies? Thus, this entire world, including time itself, has been created by God for our benefit, to bring about the true love-based choices He desires.

BUT, rather than simply allow Satan to run roughshod over creation, God has placed limits on what he can and cannot do. For one thing, Satan is allowed to use lies and deceit to deceive mankind, but, he has no authority to force people to do anything (much less, disobey or renounce God). In that sense, the authority Satan establishes over human lives, is the authority that people allow! On balance, God likewise, will not force anyone to obey, trust, love or follow Him ... even though that is His desire and the purpose of our creation and existence.

One final thing, Satan is God's creation (created for God's purpose). He is not God's enemy and has no authority or power to oppose God. However, Satan hates God and is the sworn enemy of mankind ... using every deceitful lie in his power to destroy the eternal souls of mankind.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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It is high time we get passed this ignorant ancient belief in satan (devil, lucifer, etc.)...there is NO SUCH THING. When people actually come to the realization that satan is nothing more than the egoic/carnal mind most humans live through...they will then be enabled to control it and live the way Jesus, as well as many others, taught us to live.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:49 AM
 
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Satan is in the human nature of free choice. Its like the use of narcotics in that it can take contol over ones life. Even after you reject it ;it will always temp you. But like a narcotic that brings pleasure satan natuire of humans can take control and brings misery in the end. Its all because we have are given free choice. Free chocie like any freedom can be self destructive and often is.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav View Post
Satan is in the human nature of free choice. Its like the use of narcotics in that it can take contol over ones life. Even after you reject it ;it will always temp you. But like a narcotic that brings pleasure satan natuire of humans can take control and brings misery in the end. Its all because we have are given free choice. Free chocie like any freedom can be self destructive and often is.
You are correct, maybe not exactly in the full concepts of Judaism or Islam, but correct. and no need for any elaboration on additional beliefs.

I do wish people would look up the origin of the word Satan,Shaytan in Arabic. Especially the Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic meanings. .


Anybody can be of the Shaytan.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Log home in the Appalachians
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O-Ducky, apparently your Christian god is not as all powerful as you seem to think it to be, you believe your Christian god created the being that you call Satan, than why can't he uncreate him? Apparently your god is not all powerful. You see there are certain things that don't make sense with your belief in Christianity. If your Christian god is the creator of everything, then why can't your Christian god uncreate the things it doesn't want? That's just common sense.
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Old 08-31-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Southern California
2,037 posts, read 2,144,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
It is high time we get passed this ignorant ancient belief in satan (devil, lucifer, etc.)...there is NO SUCH THING. When people actually come to the realization that satan is nothing more than the egoic/carnal mind most humans live through...they will then be enabled to control it and live the way Jesus, as well as many others, taught us to live.
Thank you, ChristyGrl for posting the Truth!

Are there evil spirits in Hell? Yep, as sure as the sun rises and sets, but there is no Commander in Chief of Hell, who is leading the evil spirit brigade. It doesn't do anybody any good to believe in this whopper, as it's a false belief and needs to be eradicated from this earth.
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