U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-11-2009, 03:19 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,895,777 times
Reputation: 771

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
"Jesus replied, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself.'" Matthew 22:37-39

I remind myself of these commandments often. I don't know how to live a life in Christ without those. What has struck me time and time again is that as I tried to begin a life of knowing the Lord, no one told me these...not even a preacher. I found these commandments by reading the Lord's Word.
The very early Christians did follow this command. But as the apostles had foretold, the great apostasy crept in after their deaths and that of the early Christian older ment that the apostles appointed as elders for shepherding and caring for the true Christian congregation. Somewhere in the very latter part of the second century, but in particularly the 3rd & 4th centuries, things just went down hill quickly.

Had all of the major divided church organizations that resulted from this falling away taught this extremely vital teaching, there never would have been all of the infamous historical attrocities done in God's name such as the Crusades, Catholic & Protestant Inquisitions, Colonial Era domination, subjugation, and in extreme events, genocide of other races & cultures across the planet, finally WWI, WWII, and countless other tragic wars involving so-called Christian nations.

Rather than get mad and upset for the above mentioned true history, be honest with yourself and put the blame where it truely belongs. Not God!!! Not the Bible!!! Not a few bad apple believer/followers!!! But, the Clergy!!!
When Jesus was on the earth, one of the major problems with the Jewish religion which was supposed to be guided under the Mosaic Law Covenant, was the same exact issue that we have today. Notice what Jesus is quoted as saying in
Mark 6:34 - "The Message Bible"
Quote:
"When Jesus arrived, he saw this huge crowd. At the site of them, his heart broke - like sheep with no shepherd they were. He went right to work teaching them."
You need to understand who Jesus enemies were and who they were'nt. First of all, Jesus enemies were NOT the secular authorities like the Roman empire, but it was the Jewish Clergy of his day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters
Why is there such little focus on these commandments? They are the first and the second. There's a great focus on baptism and witnessing (aka sharing the gospel)...but what about our greatest commandment and second?
I think here it really is important to refresh your memory here and realize that though the term "Greatest & Second Commandment" was used here, in actuality it was a restatement of the commands given to the nation of Israel who failed miserably to follow this command and it was simply being passed on to the new born Christian Congregation. Take a look at the scriptures in the Old Testament (Hebrew Sciptures) of which your above scripture has Jesus quoting.

Deuteronomy 6:5 - "American Standard Bible"
BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Deuteronomy 6:5;

Deuteronomy 10:12 - "American Standard Bible"
BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Deuteronomy 10:12;

Joshua 22:5 - "American Standard Version"
BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Joshua 22:5;

Leviticus 19:18 - "American Standard Version"
BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Leviticus 19:18;

In your above quote of Matthew 22:37, although you don't say what translation it is, it is in fact from the "New International Version". Do you see any difference in the quotes ??? Unlike the apostate and disloyal Jewish religious leaders, Jesus used his father's name Jehovah (or Yahweh), especially when quoting the scriptures of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus was not held to any apostate Jewish superstitions of not using the name. Modern day religions also refuse to use or acknowledge that name even though it was always present in the Bible. Modern archealogy has found numerous Greek Septuagint fragments of the New Testament dated from the Second Century which proved that the early Christians also used it. It was later in the 3rd & 4th centuries when the arguements over Trinity that the name was diliberately removed and replaced with capitalized LORD & GOD. So removing the divine name of almighty God in it's over 7,000 occurances and replacing it with GOD & LORD in the scriptures makes a huge difference. How can anyone love a God they don't even know.

So really the answer to the first part of your question actually has to be answered with another question, "How can most today's claimed Christians love a God named Jehovah (or Yahweh) when they refuse to acknowledge or use the name ???"

As for the second part of your question has to also be answered with other questions. "If modern day Christians don't acknowledge and respect Jesus Father, Jehovah (or Yahweh), then how in the world can they follow or believe Jesus' commands to love neighbor as themselves ???" How can they possibly respect Jesus other commands which are related to your quoted scripture, like the "New Commandment" mentioned at John 13:34 where he commanded his own followers to show love among themselves as true Christians ??? How can they be seen and identified as Jesus Christ's true followers by outsiders by what is stated at John 13:35 - "The Message Bible"
Quote:
"This is how everyone will recognize that you are my disciples, when they see the love you have for one another."
Again, it's their Clergy who have failed to teach their people the more important things Jesus taught. Like being "separate from the world" or his other command "all those who live by the sword shall die by the sword". When they adamantly refuse to stay out of politics and pursue Nationalism in their various countries or when they go to war and fight and kill each one his brother of the same faith, then it's not hard to understand why there is a massive failure of following Matthew 22:37-39.

Think real hard on this people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-11-2009, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,916,529 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Kupp View Post
Anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ and obeys the Ten Commandments, the moral precepts of the Law of Moses and the words of Jesus is our brother and sister --and we are committed to lay down our lives for them.
I disagree. Our fellow men and women are our brothers and sisters, regardless of their faith or lack of it.

Jesus constantly went back to the fundamentals of His teachings. "Do unto others.......", "How you treated the least among you.........", "Love thy neighbor .........", the Beatitudes........consistently Jesus taught compassion and sharing with your fellow man. That was his overwhelming message. Paul and the later apostles started putting so many tests and rules and dogmas into faith until it became a religious organization, and no longer faith based but rules based. Even today we argue among ourselves as to what day we should worship (every day should be a day we walk with Him), how much we should tithe (and whether or not it is on the gross or the net income, for crying out loud) when we should be there to support those who need.....we argue over whether or not we should sprinkle or immerse......when Jesus used baptism as a symbol. Getting wet has nothing to do with salvation. Being immersed in living according to Jesus' teachings (loving the neighbor, caring for those unable to care for them selves, etc) is what is important......but just as you are immersed in baptisim, so should you be immersed with God......the water is a symbol.....the God-immersed life is the real testimony.

Knowing that we are all brothers, whether we are baptists, catholics, JW's, Muslims, Hindu, Athiest, agnostic, sikh, or Wiccan, should dictate that we do not wage war, we do not kill, we do not steal, we do not do those other things that those who do not recognize God as Creator and humanity as brethern do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 04:59 PM
 
302 posts, read 477,137 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
I disagree. Our fellow men and women are our brothers and sisters, regardless of their faith or lack of it.

Jesus constantly went back to the fundamentals of His teachings. "Do unto others.......", "How you treated the least among you.........", "Love thy neighbor .........", the Beatitudes........consistently Jesus taught compassion and sharing with your fellow man. That was his overwhelming message. Paul and the later apostles started putting so many tests and rules and dogmas into faith until it became a religious organization, and no longer faith based but rules based. Even today we argue among ourselves as to what day we should worship (every day should be a day we walk with Him), how much we should tithe (and whether or not it is on the gross or the net income, for crying out loud) when we should be there to support those who need.....we argue over whether or not we should sprinkle or immerse......when Jesus used baptism as a symbol. Getting wet has nothing to do with salvation. Being immersed in living according to Jesus' teachings (loving the neighbor, caring for those unable to care for them selves, etc) is what is important......but just as you are immersed in baptisim, so should you be immersed with God......the water is a symbol.....the God-immersed life is the real testimony.

Knowing that we are all brothers, whether we are baptists, catholics, JW's, Muslims, Hindu, Athiest, agnostic, sikh, or Wiccan, should dictate that we do not wage war, we do not kill, we do not steal, we do not do those other things that those who do not recognize God as Creator and humanity as brethern do.
When one stops to think about it, the expression "love thy neighbor as thyself" is telling us "how much" we are to love. In other words,"as thyself" is the measure of service to our brethren that God expects. If my brother or sister needs something and I am not as generous to him as I would be to myself, then I am a "respecter of persons".

To say that we are to love anyone who "is near" in this same manner would place a terrible burden upon the believer. If that were true, then we would be required to share our homes,our clothes, and our food with any wretched person we happened to come across. That was never the intent of God.

I challenge anyone who says differently to prove from the history of the church in the book of Acts or the epistles that the church EVER was told to use its assets for anyone who was not a member of the body of Christ!

Having said these things let me also say that we are to "love our enemies" and to do good to all men as we have opportunity. But we are not required to love them as "ye love yourself". With the people of the world we are to follow the rules of love set forth by Paul in 1st Corinthians 13, "Love is patient and kind" etc. And yes, we are to do unto all men as we would that men would do unto us. Those are the everyday standards that God expects of us in our dealings with those outside the church. But to love another as I love myself is a privilege reserved for those who are my brethren in Christ - the children of God.

"In this the children of God are manifest...whosoever doeth not righteousness, is not of God."
1 John 3:10

Now, if you disagree with what I have said, then it is your duty to go right now and pick up that first homeless person that you see and share your food, clothing and home with them.

Donna Kupp

I invite you to read Deception #5 at this website:

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
freetruth.info
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:06 PM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,136,665 times
Reputation: 2285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Kupp View Post
Anyone who has faith in Jesus Christ and obeys the Ten Commandments, the moral precepts of the Law of Moses and the words of Jesus is our brother and sister --and we are committed to lay down our lives for them.
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

I had a neighbor once who was... she made the best bread!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:11 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,902,778 times
Reputation: 290
I think we have complicated things way over and beyond.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,916,529 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna Kupp View Post
I challenge anyone who says differently to prove from the history of the church in the book of Acts or the epistles that the church EVER was told to use its assets for anyone who was not a member of the body of Christ!
......................
Donna Kupp
You are ON!
Luke 10: 30-37
Quote:
30 In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" (Ok, Donna, answer the question JESUS asked!)



37 The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him."
Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."
Jesus stated flat out that the priest and the elder of the guys own church was NOT a neighbor to the man. In fact, as a Samaritan, Jews were prohibited to have contact with him. However, JESUS NAMES THE SAMARITAN as the neighbor.

But go ahead, help only those of your denomination. Have compassion for only those who attend your services. Life is too short to argue about such things. We will know soon enough who our neighbor is. For your sake, I pray you are not wrong........but we both know the truth, don't we?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:16 PM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,136,665 times
Reputation: 2285
Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
I think we have complicated things way over and beyond.
WHAT was your OP about ???

Actually, isn't this exactly what happened (and the same kind of audience that was there) when Jesus was teaching this same lesson???
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:21 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,902,778 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
WHAT was your OP about ???
lol It was just as it has been discussed.

How to try to explain what I mean about over complicating...I'm not so good at this.

Maybe sometimes we begin to dig deeper into something that we forget the basics of Jesus? Such as Donna's post...maybe digging too deep into love thy neighbor that we forget to take it as it is...and then run into what Jesus taught in the verses Good Pasture provided.

Some things do stand on their own. I think the Greatest Commandment and the Second That Is Like It stand alone...no need to dig deeper.

I hope no one hits me over the head for this or that I've hurt anyone with my explanation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:23 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,902,778 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
WHAT was your OP about ???

Actually, isn't this exactly what happened (and the same kind of audience that was there) when Jesus was teaching this same lesson???
I missed your second question, sorry. And yes, you are right. Eye opening. Thank you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2009, 05:29 PM
 
302 posts, read 477,137 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

I had a neighbor once who was... she made the best bread!
Yum, yum!

Are We Seventh Day Adventists? No, Then Who Are We?

My husband and I have never been members of the Seventh Day Adventist Church. (However, we believe that Jesus is coming again!) We do not belong to any denomination --nor do we want to organize one.

We have absolutely no agenda except to give our lives to the Lord and serve His people. Anyone who trusts in Jesus as their saviour and obeys Him as their Lord is our brother or sister.

I had belonged to the denominational church system for many years; worshipped on Sunday; experienced supernatural gifts; then, two questions radically changed my life ...

1. Donna, do you really want to know the truth? (I thought "Yes, of course, I want to know the truth. It would be foolish to believe a lie.")

2. Donna, will you obey the truth --no matter what the cost? My answer was a whole-hearted "Yes!"

I started to put everything to the test --even my supernatural spiritual experiences. I can still remember praying to God "You have said in your word: 'prove all things; hold fast that which is good'; so please don't be offended if I test this spiritual manifestation. I want to stand with you Father and your truth; but I don't want anything from Satan. I soon discovered that I was deceived about many things.

I had been in the church system for forty years; but couldn't even recite The Ten Commandments! My help came from the man who became my husband. He encouraged me to take a neutral attitude about the subject at hand; and then, prayerfully search the scriptures for the right answer. When I recognized an error, I would never delay choosing the side of truth. I would ask God for forgiveness, and when possible, would renounce my former belief before others that I had previously influenced with my error.

My husband and I came to learn about the seventh day Sabbath from personal Bible Study. Our writing is based upon that study.

God bless ...

Donna Kupp

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
freetruth.info
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top