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View Poll Results: Who is Your Favorite Pastor?
Creflo Dollar 3 2.86%
Joel Osteen 14 13.33%
TD Jakes 10 9.52%
Joyce Meyer 19 18.10%
Neither 59 56.19%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-15-2009, 08:50 AM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,123,016 times
Reputation: 2285

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Fundamentalist....

How is it different when I say that it's a disgrace for you to criticize these ministries or for you to call these minisitries a disgrace?

So, it's o.k. for you to publicly speak against ministers but it's not o.k. to say the same exact words back in reference to you?

I think you need to remember that Paul, who you compared yourself to in a previous post, was also a persecutor of the Church...

I used the same words back to the poster that he used in description of the ministries. And, I could do likewise, to you from your previous posts...

In fact, I did.

You try to have a nice day. And, please remember our previous discussion.
I asked you please, please not to address me on this forum.

I don't have time to argue with you today. I've said my peace.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:02 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,715,191 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
Fundamentalist....

How is it different when I say that it's a disgrace for you to criticize these ministries or for you to call these minisitries a disgrace?
I never called these ministries, a disgrace. I said, they have un-biblical, un-founded abhorrent teaching and some of them border and cross over heresy.

Quote:
So, it's o.k. for you to publicly speak against ministers but it's not o.k. to say the same exact words back in reference to you?
On what authority? Show us from the bible that we are heretics or providing abhorrent teaching

Quote:
I think you need to remember that Paul, who you compared yourself to in a previous post, was also a persecutor of the Church...
Come on, this is God's words not Paul's. He was led by the Holy Spirit as I when I read Corinthians, Romans etc....

Quote:
I used the same words back to the poster that he used in description of the ministries. And, I could do likewise, to you from your previous posts...

In fact, I did.
He said it in general, you individualized it.
Quote:
You try to have a nice day. And, please remember our previous discussion.
I asked you please, please not to address me on this forum.

I don't have time to argue with you today. I've said my peace.
I pray for you everyday as well and you don't have to respond.
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Old 01-15-2009, 09:08 AM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,123,016 times
Reputation: 2285
I'm sorry you feel that it was personal. I wasn't even addressing you.

It's really no different....

I have benefited from the ministries of Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen as have many millions of other people.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine with me.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:08 PM
 
178 posts, read 348,844 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
We are not humbling ourselves and being gentle of heart.
I agree. We are also not addressing the scripture which speaks on the subject matter of this thread.

Declarations such as "I like Joyce Meyer" or "I don't like Joyce Meyer" mean nothing.

Again, in case anyone missed it, let's see what the scriptures say about preaching for profit.

It is Evil for a Priest to teach for Money

One who preaches God's Word for money is not a true man of God.
Micah 3:11-12, "The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest."

A man of God is not to seek his own gain.
Isaiah 56:11, "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."
1 Corinthians 10:32-33, "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the congregation of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."
1 Timothy 6:5, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."
A minister of God is not to covet money, nor expect money, when he preaches God's Word.
Acts 20:33-34, "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

Paul is pointing out that while he had been teaching in the synagogues each Sabbath and ministering to the needs of the people, he did so at his own expense and even provided for the expense of any of his assistants by the work of his own hands. Paul was reinforcing the Old Testament examples of being a strong, contributing member of the community. Paul himself, was labouring with his own hands - working to look after his needs and those of his fellow workers, while taking from his own time and expense, to preach the Gospel to those who needed it.

Paul believed that it was more blessed to give spiritual enlightenment to the people than it was to receive material reward for so doing. Paul was one of the New Testament's best examples of how to be a disciple of the Word of God. Paul's special calling was indeed to be a disciple to the Gentiles. He went on to say that it would be an abuse of his authority to do otherwise, and worse yet, that by looking for material recompense, he would actually be hindering the Gospel from reaching those that had no material things to give.
2 Corinthians 2:17, "For we are not as the many, making gain by corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,901,366 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
I agree. We are also not addressing the scripture which speaks on the subject matter of this thread.

Declarations such as "I like Joyce Meyer" or "I don't like Joyce Meyer" mean nothing.

Again, in case anyone missed it, let's see what the scriptures say about preaching for profit.

It is Evil for a Priest to teach for Money

One who preaches God's Word for money is not a true man of God.
Micah 3:11-12, "The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest."

A man of God is not to seek his own gain.
Isaiah 56:11, "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."
1 Corinthians 10:32-33, "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the congregation of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."
1 Timothy 6:5, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."
A minister of God is not to covet money, nor expect money, when he preaches God's Word.
Acts 20:33-34, "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

Paul is pointing out that while he had been teaching in the synagogues each Sabbath and ministering to the needs of the people, he did so at his own expense and even provided for the expense of any of his assistants by the work of his own hands. Paul was reinforcing the Old Testament examples of being a strong, contributing member of the community. Paul himself, was labouring with his own hands - working to look after his needs and those of his fellow workers, while taking from his own time and expense, to preach the Gospel to those who needed it.

Paul believed that it was more blessed to give spiritual enlightenment to the people than it was to receive material reward for so doing. Paul was one of the New Testament's best examples of how to be a disciple of the Word of God. Paul's special calling was indeed to be a disciple to the Gentiles. He went on to say that it would be an abuse of his authority to do otherwise, and worse yet, that by looking for material recompense, he would actually be hindering the Gospel from reaching those that had no material things to give.
2 Corinthians 2:17, "For we are not as the many, making gain by corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
Sorry...I wasn't referencing Joyce Meyers or anything about money. Just wanted to clarify.
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:36 PM
 
178 posts, read 348,844 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
Sorry...I wasn't referencing Joyce Meyers or anything about money. Just wanted to clarify.
No need to apologize. I know you weren't referencing Joyce Meyer. I just wanted to expand on your insightful and refreshing comment.
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Old 01-15-2009, 06:22 PM
 
342 posts, read 468,483 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
I'm sorry you feel that it was personal. I wasn't even addressing you.

It's really no different....

I have benefited from the ministries of Joyce Meyer and Joel Osteen as have many millions of other people.

If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine with me.
And they have "benefited" from you...... even more.....$$$$$$$$.......as was explained to you earlier in prior posts...;As I said before these "ministries" are a disgrace and an abomination.......Deceivers leading blind followers who are offended by the truth......They preach a diluted Gospel message for profit, BUT " What does it profit a man or woman to store up earthy treasure.......and loose their soul........... It is bad enough for someone to exploit others in the secular realm; but I would not want to imagine the punishment that awaits those who exploit the Word of God for earthly gain at the expense of others.......DOUBLE INDEMNITY....remember...JESUS TOOK A WHIPP to the money changers "in the temple".....this is the only time Jesus got so angry He delivered earthly retribution.........E-nuff said

Last edited by Vessif; 01-15-2009 at 07:07 PM..
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Old 01-16-2009, 01:27 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,718,971 times
Reputation: 844
Creflo make the dollas flow like the creeks-flo
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:09 AM
 
4,541 posts, read 13,123,016 times
Reputation: 2285
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Creflo make the dollas flow like the creeks-flo
Funny. I didn't mention Creflo in any of my posts. In fact, until now, no one's mentioned his name.

Why do you want to jump in here now and give the legalists fodder?

I've certainly not joined into their Universalist discussion.... I want nothing to do with it.

Do Universalists also hate Joyce Meyer?

Last edited by World Citizen; 01-16-2009 at 08:38 AM..
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Old 01-16-2009, 08:16 AM
 
Location: fla
1,511 posts, read 2,761,627 times
Reputation: 709
Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
I agree. We are also not addressing the scripture which speaks on the subject matter of this thread.

Declarations such as "I like Joyce Meyer" or "I don't like Joyce Meyer" mean nothing.

Again, in case anyone missed it, let's see what the scriptures say about preaching for profit.

It is Evil for a Priest to teach for Money

One who preaches God's Word for money is not a true man of God.
Micah 3:11-12, "The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us. Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest."

A man of God is not to seek his own gain.
Isaiah 56:11, "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."
1 Corinthians 10:32-33, "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the congregation of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved."
1 Timothy 6:5, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."
A minister of God is not to covet money, nor expect money, when he preaches God's Word.
Acts 20:33-34, "I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive."

Paul is pointing out that while he had been teaching in the synagogues each Sabbath and ministering to the needs of the people, he did so at his own expense and even provided for the expense of any of his assistants by the work of his own hands. Paul was reinforcing the Old Testament examples of being a strong, contributing member of the community. Paul himself, was labouring with his own hands - working to look after his needs and those of his fellow workers, while taking from his own time and expense, to preach the Gospel to those who needed it.

Paul believed that it was more blessed to give spiritual enlightenment to the people than it was to receive material reward for so doing. Paul was one of the New Testament's best examples of how to be a disciple of the Word of God. Paul's special calling was indeed to be a disciple to the Gentiles. He went on to say that it would be an abuse of his authority to do otherwise, and worse yet, that by looking for material recompense, he would actually be hindering the Gospel from reaching those that had no material things to give.
2 Corinthians 2:17, "For we are not as the many, making gain by corrupting the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
well stated--the bible has many references to those who in GODS name seek to become wealthy
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