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Old 01-12-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,182,505 times
Reputation: 1331

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Quote:
What I am saying Miss Shana is that it is ludicrous for people to accept the teaching that everyone is going to heaven. That is absolutely untrue. Everyone is not going there. It's sad and heartbreaking, but very real.

God is all powerful and He can do anything He wants. I've seen deathbed conversions in my family and know the reality of it. But I've also seen many of my loved ones refuse to believe the truth and go into eternity without Christ. It's painful to think about and gutwrenching but so very true. Not everyone will be in heaven.
This is what you believe, Hoosier. I understand. But it isn't ludicrous to believe that God can and will win all hearts to Himself. He will subject all so that He will be all in all. There are many scriptures which support this. God bless.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,669 posts, read 30,324,706 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
What I am saying Miss Shana is that it is ludicrous for people to accept the teaching that everyone is going to heaven. That is absolutely untrue. Everyone is not going there. It's sad and heartbreaking, but very real.

God is all powerful and He can do anything He wants. I've seen deathbed conversions in my family and know the reality of it. But I've also seen many of my loved ones refuse to believe the truth and go into eternity without Christ. It's painful to think about and gutwrenching but so very true. Not everyone will be in heaven.
I totally agree! People don't want to believe that people will go to hell for rejecting Jesus, but it is clearly taught in Scripture. People who don't seek forgiveness from Him will face eternal separation from Him.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:41 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,182,505 times
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I don't believe that eternal hell is taught in the scriptures and neither do many other Christians I believe that God is greater than darkness and sin, and much greater than any rebellious heart. Jesus died for them and He will have them. God bless.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:43 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,747,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
If someone says this, this says to me that they do not really understand why Jesus died for them. It isn't really about going to heaven. It is about pleasing the Father and about being reconciled to Him. I believe that God is greater than darkness and that goodness will reign over evil. I believe that Jesus will restore all to the Father and I believe that this is found in the scriptures. God bless.
I am a fundamentalist. I understand why Jesus dies for me but why should I care if I am a selfish, despicable human being if I am going to heaven anyway. Who cares if the Father is pleased. That is human psychology?

You never answered my question therefore we are going in circles. I understand all that you said and Yes God can overcome anything but it still begs the question. If universalism is the way then there is no point living for God! I would blasheme His name till next week and the Lord will NOT hold me guiltless for taking His name in vain. It just isn't logical.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:50 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,182,505 times
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I am a fundamentalist. I understand why Jesus dies for me but why should I care if I am a selfish, despicable human being if I am going to heaven anyway. Who cares if the Father is pleased. That is human psychology?
If someone doesn't care that he or she is a selfish and despicable human being, then he or she does not really understand why Jesus died for them or the destructiveness of sin.


Quote:
You never answered my question therefore we are going in circles. I understand all that you said and Yes God can overcome anything but it still begs the question. If universalism is the way then there is no point living for God! I would blasheme His name till next week and the Lord will NOT hold me guiltless for taking His name in vain. It just isn't logical.
I have already shared, Fundamentalist,people will reap what they sow. God will deal with sin in our lives. This is the purpose of the judgment. We cannot repent, hate the sinfulness in us, come to Jesus needing Him and recognizing Him as Savior, until we are faced with who we are and our sinfulness.

Hope to be back on tomorrow. Must turn in. Take care and God bless.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,669 posts, read 30,324,706 times
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Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
If someone doesn't care that he or she is a selfish and despicable human being, then he or she does not really understand why Jesus died for them or the destructiveness of sin.




I have already shared, Fundamentalist,people will reap what they sow. God will deal with sin in our lives. This is the purpose of the judgment. We cannot repent, hate the sinfulness in us, come to Jesus needing Him and recognizing Him as Savior, until we are faced with who we are and our sinfulness.

Hope to be back on tomorrow. Must turn in. Take care and God bless.
Shana I hope you get a good nights sleep. Maybe tomorrow you can answer this for me. You say people should repent and come to Jesus, but yet you also say everyone will be saved, even if they don't repent?
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,736,798 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Then my question is, why be a Christian? How does it benefit me? If I found out universalism is the right doctrine, then no kidding. I would head for the nearest strip club tonight and say, hi to some old friends.
Then you have no integrity and are serving God for fear of punishment (wrong reason).
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,736,798 times
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Why!!?? should I follow Him if I will be reconciled to Him anyway? the bible says I am at enmity with God, I am carnal. I want nothing to do with God so if that's the case, why do I go against my own nature? there is no point. We are all going to heaven anyway. You see my way, even if I am wrong we will all go to heaven but if you are wrong and I am right then you are guilty of heresy and millions who believed your doctrine will go to hell. Sin is fun and we are bound by it so why go through the battle of flesh and spirit, why go through the hassle and stress when we can just give in and live a happier, eaier, selfish life?
Fundy,
Really, no joke dude, you really don't know what God is about yet. There is no sin in this world that holds a candle to the joy of knowing God and His perfect love. Living a Spirit filled life is a billion times more fun and fulfilling than all the sex, drugs and rock and roll in the world. I lived both lives - I know.

Jesus came so we could know God, not so we could earn (by being good Christians) a ticket to a magic fairytale land. My guess is that you see some great benefit for yourself in serving God but you have never come to the end of yourself and so perfect love who's goal and final result is to redeem all makes no sense to you.

I'm just being blunt and am really not criticizing you as we all have our path. I do appreciate your honesty but you are obviously missing a big piece of the puzzle. God will lead you in though, in His time and when you are ready.
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:09 PM
 
40,397 posts, read 26,912,027 times
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Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Fundy,
Really, no joke dude, you really don't know what God is about yet. There is no sin in this world that holds a candle to the joy of knowing God and His perfect love. Living a Spirit filled life is a billion times more fun and fulfilling than all the sex, drugs and rock and roll in the world. I lived both lives - I know.

Jesus came so we could know God, not so we could earn (by being good Christians) a ticket to a magic fairytale land. My guess is that you see some great benefit for yourself in serving God but you have never come to the end of yourself and so perfect love who's goal and final result is to redeem all makes no sense to you.

I'm just being blunt and am really not criticizing you as we all have our path. I do appreciate your honesty but you are obviously missing a big piece of the puzzle. God will lead you in though, in His time and when you are ready.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Frisco, TX
7,564 posts, read 11,930,351 times
Reputation: 4520
Universalism isnít something you preach - itís something you live. You donít tell people to destroy themselves and crush others along the way - no, you love everyone the way your Father loves them. You donít shut anyone out, because you see Him as Lord of all. It makes you see Him as higher - and that is the key to worship, do you see Him as having any limit to His being?

If so, ask Him for a greater revelation.

As has been pointed out, God has a plan to bring all creation back to Him - thatís His design for His creation, and itís much bigger than what we have been shown thus far. I believe this. Shana mentioned first fruits, and this is the stepping stone of the dispensation that He will bring about. One company gives ďbirthĒ to another, and so on.

We have today a most limited view of eternity, and because we can only see to the end of this horizon, we feel that this is the end of Godís horizon as well. I will never believe that. The grave is the destination, all right, but not for the entire man.

To live our lives unto ourselves is doing nothing than waxing cold, and as you know, wax must be heated to be removed. I do know this, to be buried in sin and shame makes for a glorious breakthrough, and itís an understatement to say that God has a knack for comebacks.
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