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Old 01-13-2009, 03:06 PM
 
5,006 posts, read 13,865,263 times
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Even an atheist like me knows that it is cruel and very wrong to torture. I don't need a Bible to tell me this. I don't even like that they are using white phosopherous in Gaza. Being burned is extremely cruel. The pain almost never goes away, and many who have been badly burned committ suicide. Bad enough that people are being killed and mained during any war, but I do believe that people have the right to protect ourselves. And yet I do not understand the war in Gaza enough to even know who is right and who is wrong here.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Tampa
2 posts, read 3,275 times
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christ was torturted by many, it was the way of the time to kill at that time. Although his death was much worse. It does not mean that is should ever be done to anyone. One of the things he teaches us is The love of another is most important.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,032,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
In BUD/S can you walk away? Is it your right? If you refused to do what they asked what happened to you? In another post you mentioned that women couldn't hack it. Were they forced to go through with BUD/S?
Yes you can walk away, but that means quiting the program.

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See thats the difference. You could have walked away. Those being tortured can't.
If they give up the information then the torture stops, so yes it is a form of being able to walk away.



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That doesn't mean we should torture.

You want to know what torture really is? Its not what the US is doing or has been doing, actual torture is far worse, you know like pulling out fingernail, skinning alive, mutulating genetalia, driving nails into the skull, cutting the head off slowly, cutting off body parts, and the list goes on and on. Sleep deprivation, annoying sounds, heat, cold, water boarding, putting sacks over the head smelly or not, these are games compared to true torture.



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Yes.. look at what happened to John McCain. Even he said we shouldn't torture!
Because he has suffered the worst.



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It may not work in war but we aren't debating "do unto others as they would have them do unto you".

We are debating torture not a phrase.
Torture works and it is a neccessary evil.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:37 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,210,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Yes you can walk away, but that means quiting the program.
So then the two really aren't the same are they? Like not even close the same.. not in the same ballpark the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
If they give up the information then the torture stops, so yes it is a form of being able to walk away.
But if you walk away its on your terms.. not theirs. Torture is different. I know you see this but ego is disallowing you to admit it. It must be torture to be wrong. Pure torture. You can walk away though.. so it really isn't torture. See what I did there. I'm awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
You want to know what torture really is? Its not what the US is doing or has been doing, actual torture is far worse, you know like pulling out fingernail, skinning alive, mutulating genetalia, driving nails into the skull, cutting the head off slowly, cutting off body parts, and the list goes on and on. Sleep deprivation, annoying sounds, heat, cold, water boarding, putting sacks over the head smelly or not, these are games compared to true torture.
I like how you slipped water boarding in there.. hilarious.

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Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Because he has suffered the worst.
So because of that we discount what he has to say on the matter? Really? I ask really BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT HIM INTO THE CONVERSATION.

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Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Torture works and it is a neccessary evil.
Oh well maybe can start using torture as a means to dipose a witness in this country. That makes perfect sense except for the fact that it makes no sense.

Here is my rebuttal to "torture works".

5 Myths About Torture and Truth - washingtonpost.com
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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You can have your rebuttal and you can think what you want, but if it saves even one innocent life by making a combatants life miserable, so be it.
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Old 01-13-2009, 07:44 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,724,295 times
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Washington Post?????? You can't go anymore left than the Post.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,724,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
You can have your rebuttal and you can think what you want, but if it saves even one innocent life by making a combatants life miserable, so be it.
"Making miserable" and inflicting intense unbearable pain are two different things. Also I think the data shows that better results can be obtained through various psychological techniques.

You don't defeat barbarism by becoming barbarians. I am not naive and do understand that some people want no part of civility but I would rather leave here with my civility intact. I will not become like 'them' in order to live and we should not do that as a nation either.
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Old 01-13-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,032,097 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
"Making miserable" and inflicting intense unbearable pain are two different things. Also I think the data shows that better results can be obtained through various psychological techniques.

You don't defeat barbarism by becoming barbarians. I am not naive and do understand that some people want no part of civility but I would rather leave here with my civility intact. I will not become like 'them' in order to live and we should not do that as a nation either.
I agree, there is a difference. Humiliating someone by making them go around naked. Turning the temperature extremely hi or extremely low. Making them shave. Taking away prayer rugs and Qurans. Taking away proper refuse systems. Denying baths. These do not harm anyone, the closest one to harming someone is waterboarding. We are not obligated to provide any emenities above and beyond what they are used to in their homes and as we know many of them come from homes with no heat or ac, without proper facilities and these are the things that are being condemned. So they play Liza Minelli a little loud and leave the lights on 24/7, how is this torture? We take away the emenities and offer them back if they cooperate. We have no obligation to give them Qurans or prayer rugs. As for the shaving of the heads and the faces this can be summed up as sanitery procedures like they do to prisoners here in the states and those who go to bootcamp. As I said I will give you waterboarding as a torture method but the rest cause no harm.
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,916,529 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I agree, there is a difference. Humiliating someone by making them go around naked. Turning the temperature extremely hi or extremely low. Making them shave. Taking away prayer rugs and Qurans. Taking away proper refuse systems. Denying baths. These do not harm anyone, the closest one to harming someone is waterboarding. We are not obligated to provide any emenities above and beyond what they are used to in their homes and as we know many of them come from homes with no heat or ac, without proper facilities and these are the things that are being condemned. So they play Liza Minelli a little loud and leave the lights on 24/7, how is this torture? We take away the emenities and offer them back if they cooperate. We have no obligation to give them Qurans or prayer rugs. As for the shaving of the heads and the faces this can be summed up as sanitery procedures like they do to prisoners here in the states and those who go to bootcamp. As I said I will give you waterboarding as a torture method but the rest cause no harm.
How incredibly non-Christian........show me where any of the things done to the Muslims is sanctioned by the Bible............
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Old 01-13-2009, 10:40 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,210,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Washington Post?????? You can't go anymore left than the Post.
So instead of debating the article you'd just as soon debate the entire newspaper. Fantastic debate skills. Truly I'm in awe.
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