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Old 01-15-2009, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
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It all boils down to choice. I choose to live or I choose to die. Just don't blame God for the choices you make. Right to life and all right?

 
Old 01-15-2009, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
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Man standards says: I can do as I please, I have the right to do what I want, and if there's consequences, whatever!

God's standards........................................R ead the Book.
 
Old 01-15-2009, 02:35 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,715,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Oh wow, humanist standards killed 200 million people in the 20th century? please explain.

You know, Hitler used religion to control Nazis and justify genocide.
I love when atheist use that, there is nowhere in the bible in the right conext that will condone Hitler, that was racism, pure and simple.

Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin from communism, atheist, fascism, Nazism, Marxism, Darwinism, Socialism governments have murdered 200,000,000 of its own people.
The humanistic standards you were talking about?
 
Old 01-15-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I love when atheist use that, there is nowhere in the bible in the right conext that will condone Hitler, that was racism, pure and simple.

Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin from communism, atheist, fascism, Nazism, Marxism, Darwinism, Socialism governments have murdered 200,000,000 of its own people.
The humanistic standards you were talking about?
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism and other supernatural beliefs, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity. American Humanist Association: Humanism

Obviously killing one single person, let alone 200 million, is against humanism, and it requires no bible. It wouldn't make sense to use the bible anyway, because it condones or portrays role-models (God's chosen people) engaging in genocide, rape, murder, polygamy, incest, slavery, racism, sexism, and discrimination against gays. Of course, there's an unspoken disclaimer saying to ignore all the bad stuff and focus on Jesus. But Jesus never once condemns slavery or sexism either.

Religion was dragged kicking and screaming from the dark ages into the age of enlightenment when we could finally ensure that human rights were more important than any religious code. Religion can be a good thing, but it can also be a vehicle for rights violations and discrimination if left unchecked. History shows that.

We should get back to the OP (as we are dangerously offtopic now).
 
Old 01-15-2009, 02:54 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,205,532 times
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Ok.. now I'm just confused.

Hitler got his morals from God?

Hilter was a humanist?

Again.. confused..
 
Old 01-15-2009, 03:02 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,715,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism and other supernatural beliefs, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity. American Humanist Association: Humanism

Obviously killing one single person, let alone 200 million, is against humanism, and it requires no bible. It wouldn't make sense to use the bible anyway, because it condones or portrays role-models (God's chosen people) engaging in genocide, rape, murder, polygamy, incest, slavery, racism, sexism, and discrimination against gays. Of course, there's an unspoken disclaimer saying to ignore all the bad stuff and focus on Jesus. But Jesus never once condemns slavery or sexism either.

Religion was dragged kicking and screaming from the dark ages into the age of enlightenment when we could finally ensure that human rights were more important than any religious code. Religion can be a good thing, but it can also be a vehicle for rights violations and discrimination if left unchecked. History shows that.

We should get back to the OP (as we are dangerously offtopic now).
You keep believing that. No God, no morals? .Don't fool yourself thinking you don't need a lawgiver. No lawgiver, No law. you would not know right from wrong. Sorry. There would be no moral absolutes therefore morality would be relative.
If there was no God, no lawgiver, who are you to say under what authority to say what is right and what is wrong?
 
Old 01-15-2009, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,581,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You keep believing that. No God, no morals? .Don't fool yourself thinking you don't need a lawgiver. No lawgiver, No law. you would not know right from wrong. Sorry. There would be no moral absolutes therefore morality would be relative.
If there was no God, no lawgiver, who are you to say under what authority to say what is right and what is wrong?
Logic. Logic as in their own thinking, their own mind's, their own concepts. Modern-day Pharisees, that is. As it was in the beginning.......................
 
Old 01-15-2009, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
There are many things in those same chapters that god says is wrong that you don't follow. But the point is, churches are discriminating against gays by not allowing them the same privileges as straights. Just because your archaic book condones it doesn't mean it isn't discrimination based on modern humanist standards.
From this statement you only believe in books that were published starting what year?

None of the Archaic one's..... we get that.

How about in the 60's... still too old, maybe the 80's is your cut off point...

I'm just trying to understand what date you start accepting.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 01-15-2009, 04:35 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,484,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
From this statement you only believe in books that were published starting what year?

None of the Archaic one's..... we get that.

How about in the 60's... still too old, maybe the 80's is your cut off point...

I'm just trying to understand what date you start accepting.

godspeed,

freedom
I don't adhere to humanist views of universal human rights because they are modern; it's just that only in modern times has the concept of human rights really been respected by government (mostly at least). I adhere because they make sense. Everyone is equal, and deserves equal rights. We have a responsibility to better humanity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
You keep believing that. No God, no morals? .Don't fool yourself thinking you don't need a lawgiver. No lawgiver, No law. you would not know right from wrong. Sorry. There would be no moral absolutes therefore morality would be relative.
If there was no God, no lawgiver, who are you to say under what authority to say what is right and what is wrong?
There have been plenty of threads about morality. Even within religions there is no absolute morality, as God has clearly not ensured that every believer has the same exact moral code.

We don't need God to give us morals. Societal norms give us morals, and the law (the one that every member of society can agree exists) punishes those who violate others' rights. In fact, societal norms and secular law have done away with many of the horrific laws and customs in the bible, like slavery. It's still working on discrimination, though, as evidenced in the reaction to the OP topic.
 
Old 01-15-2009, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 11,663,174 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
I don't adhere to humanist views of universal human rights because they are modern; it's just that only in modern times has the concept of human rights really been respected by government (mostly at least). I adhere because they make sense. Everyone is equal, and deserves equal rights. We have a responsibility to better humanity.
That makes it sound like Government is your problem, not one's "right" to define morality in terms that suit their personal human definition.
Everyone is not equal, that is a misnomer.

There is no way to make everyone equal in a world full of unique individuals that have varying degrees of control and power over others.

Is a blind man equal to a sighted, or a lame man to a long distance runner.
A King to a homeless man? Not even close...

If you are narrowly focusing your definition of equal around some kind of creed then you will always meet opposition. Equality is impossible in this sphere of existence.
Gay men can't have babies, are they equal to a man and woman that can? No.

Another Example: i wish to raise my children without them hearing how 2 men have anal sex and some "universal rights" person, saying it is normal and good.

Do your equal rights extend to my rights?



godspeed,

freedom
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