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In order for me to make my point clear, I need to first discuss how many times fornication is discussed in the bible. The word fornication is derived fromt he Greek word,"porneia" , and is normally translated in the King James Version of the Bible as "fornication." The word porn and pornography comes from this same Greek word. There are 32 verses in the original Greek versions of the Christian Scriptures that contain the word. It means illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18 Sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11, metaph. the worship of idols of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.
Some examples are:
Matthew 5:32: "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery..."
Romans 1:29-31: "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"
1 Corinthians 5:1: "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."
1 Corinthians 7:2: "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."
Galatians 5:19-20: "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies..."
Jude 1:7: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Revelation 18:3: "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."
What's very interesting about many of these verses that deal with fornication or porneia is that they are used in the context of heterosexuals fornicating. I make this point because homosexuals are excluded because of them already being turned over by God to a reprobate mind as Romans 1:28 clearly shows.
The point I am making is that (some scriptures translates the Greek Word adokimos in Romans 1:28 as , reprobate KJV, vile or debased NKJV). The Greek word here is very crucial in understanding what Paul is arguing in context for that time period, and in context for anyone who turns away from God. Adokimos can be defined as: not standing the test, not approved properly used of metals and coins that which does not prove itself such as it ought unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate
Knowing this, would it make sense that a person who can not stand up to God's test,who's mind has become reprobate, debased or vile could be born again to enter into His kingdom. The point Paul clearly makes in the context of that time is that he is writing to the Romans who already knew and fully understood that it was unnatural for them to have homosexual sex when so many men and women were already engaging in that unnatural act. The mere fact that this is even mentioned in Romans should be a wake up call for anyone who may be HABITUALLY engaging in any of those sins.
The key thing to note in these verses is that these people Paul is referring to were not TRULY BORN AGAIN and that they were formerly professing Christians who did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in their hearts. These same people reverted to Paganism, and who engaged in ritual sexual behavior as a part of their newly adopted Pagan services. During these rituals, the Pagans were whipped into such a state of sexual frenzy that they went against their heterosexual nature and started engaging in sexual behavior with members of the same sex.
Its quite clear that Paul condemns such behavior. He concludes that Pagan worship will inevitably leads to other negative behavior: "...unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, [and] unmerciful." Therefore, God, who is a God of order, never intended for a man to natually sleep with a man or a woman to naturally sleep with a woman. Had it been so, I strongly believe that we all would have been born hermaphadites, and this issue would not be even an issue today.
If we go to Genesis 2:18, 22-24, it says : And the Lord God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. This scripture clearly sums it all up; the union between a man and a woman is set by God's natural order and plan. You don't have to be a Greek scholar to understand what God's main purpose for Man was in those verses.
It is clear that Adam, a man, needs companionship, and a woman offers him that as a blessing from God. Also, it is evident that sexual intercourse results in a man and woman becoming one flesh. We can call two gay men or lesbian women together as natural as a heterosexual couple's union, but the reality of the matter is that it is not natural at all. Two men may be able to have sexual intercourse, but that type of intercourse that they are having is not natural nor is a man's anus naturally designed for anal intercourse the way a woman's vagina is designed for it. God designed the anus as a muscle to EXCRETE WASTE from the body, not to inject any thing in it as to simulate the NATURAL INTERCOURSE BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN.
I keep hearing the argument that the bible really doesn't teach against being a homosexual, and that the English translations are poor translations to condemn homosexuality. I'm also hearing that a gay person is born this way, and as a result of being born this way, it is as natural for him to be gay as it is as natural for a person to be straight. He is not sexually attracted to the opposite sex, and therefore, if God is love then He understands, knows this person's heart, and allows this person to be gay without any condemnation. A straight man can make the same argument about being born straight, that he's a sex addict, he just can't stop sleeping around with multiple women, and because if he tries to commit and get married, all he's going to do is cheat on his wife. So since he's a sex addict, God knows his heart and therefore he should be given a pass as well.
WE AREN'T GIVEN ANY EXCUSES FOR SIN. The bible teaches that our sins are forgiven when we accept Jesus Christ into our lives, Repent of our sins, and as a result of that become truly Born Again so that we don't continue to habitually drown in sin after God called us to Him. Jesus said in Luke 9:23 that if anyone desires to come after Me, let him DENY himself, and take up his CROSS daily, and follow me. All we must do is follow Jesus, obey God's commandments, and stop using EXCUSES for why it's ok to FORNICATE AND LIVE IN SIN, WHEN NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT TO TWIST GOD'S WORD, A HABITUAL FORNICATOR WILL NOT SEE NOR ENTER GOD'S KINGDOM be it a gay, lesbian, or straight christian.
It is amazing what people will do to hold on to their sin and how some Christians will side on what feels good as oppose to what God's word is. Many Christians that lack discernment have no clue what Marriage signifies between God and man.
I would never want to join any religious community of any kind. Adherence to the bible or the koran or any religious book seems to me to be a grave error, that must cause a great deal of sadness and pain.
I feel no need or use for exclusivity.
There is no one, (and no part of my universe) - never has been, never will be - to whom I do not belong, or who does not belong to me. Gay or not.
Certainly, when I have felt despair, rejection, all the most painful of emotions - it is an understanding of what 'love' might be - through knowing and understanding christ, that is always calming and strengthening, even through the most terrible circumstances I have known.
This has nothing whatever to do with 'RELIGION' or dogma.
If I were to apply any kind of religious dogma, from any established religious practices, to attempt to understand my fellows, or my world, I know that I would feel hopelessly lost again.
It is impossible for me to imagine that ANY human feeling, is 'sin' - if it approaches the 'love' I know in christ.
Gender, age, status, whatever have these, or any of the divisions that humans imagine to be real, to do with *real* loving? Do you know what Love is?
Look at the kindness, gentleness, forgiveness, bravery and ultimately, sacrifice, of christ - to see it and know it.
The 'bible' is just one account - there are so many - carried through centuries of real and personal experience, by people who often have had no way to 'read' or understand any books - at all.
Of course 'men' can and do love and cherish each other, very dearly. Of course women can and do love and cherish each other, very dearly.
How cruel - how 'sinful', how misguided it would be, for me to suggest otherwise.
Wherever I might READ such an idea, it is a sad and misguided idea.
I suppose the hatred of 'gayness', whenever in history it occurs, must spring initially from its association with anal sexuality that is assumed to be part of 'gay' love. Whether it is practised, or not.
For myself - whatever gender - anal sexuality presents many risks that I would not like to take, no matter how pleasurable it might be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd
In order for me to make my point clear, I need to first discuss how many times fornication is discussed in the bible. The word fornication is derived fromt he Greek word,"porneia" , and is normally translated in the King James Version of the Bible as "fornication." The word porn and pornography comes from this same Greek word. There are 32 verses in the original Greek versions of the Christian Scriptures that contain the word. It means illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18 Sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11, metaph. the worship of idols of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.
Some examples are:
Matthew 5:32: "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery..."
Romans 1:29-31: "Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:"
1 Corinthians 5:1: "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife."
1 Corinthians 7:2: "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."
Galatians 5:19-20: "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies..."
Jude 1:7: "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Revelation 18:3: "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies."
What's very interesting about many of these verses that deal with fornication or porneia is that they are used in the context of heterosexuals fornicating. I make this point because homosexuals are excluded because of them already being turned over by God to a reprobate mind as Romans 1:28 clearly shows.
The point I am making is that (some scriptures translates the Greek Word adokimos in Romans 1:28 as , reprobate KJV, vile or debased NKJV). The Greek word here is very crucial in understanding what Paul is arguing in context for that time period, and in context for anyone who turns away from God. Adokimos can be defined as: not standing the test, not approved properly used of metals and coins that which does not prove itself such as it ought unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate
Knowing this, would it make sense that a person who can not stand up to God's test,who's mind has become reprobate, debased or vile could be born again to enter into His kingdom. The point Paul clearly makes in the context of that time is that he is writing to the Romans who already knew and fully understood that it was unnatural for them to have homosexual sex when so many men and women were already engaging in that unnatural act. The mere fact that this is even mentioned in Romans should be a wake up call for anyone who may be HABITUALLY engaging in any of those sins.
The key thing to note in these verses is that these people Paul is referring to were not TRULY BORN AGAIN and that they were formerly professing Christians who did not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in their hearts. These same people reverted to Paganism, and who engaged in ritual sexual behavior as a part of their newly adopted Pagan services. During these rituals, the Pagans were whipped into such a state of sexual frenzy that they went against their heterosexual nature and started engaging in sexual behavior with members of the same sex.
Its quite clear that Paul condemns such behavior. He concludes that Pagan worship will inevitably leads to other negative behavior: "...unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, [and] unmerciful." Therefore, God, who is a God of order, never intended for a man to natually sleep with a man or a woman to naturally sleep with a woman. Had it been so, I strongly believe that we all would have been born hermaphadites, and this issue would not be even an issue today.
If we go to Genesis 2:18, 22-24, it says : And the Lord God said, "It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him." Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. And Adam said: "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. This scripture clearly sums it all up; the union between a man and a woman is set by God's natural order and plan. You don't have to be a Greek scholar to understand what God's main purpose for Man was in those verses.
It is clear that Adam, a man, needs companionship, and a woman offers him that as a blessing from God. Also, it is evident that sexual intercourse results in a man and woman becoming one flesh. We can call two gay men or lesbian women together as natural as a heterosexual couple's union, but the reality of the matter is that it is not natural at all. Two men may be able to have sexual intercourse, but that type of intercourse that they are having is not natural nor is a man's anus naturally designed for anal intercourse the way a woman's vagina is designed for it. God designed the anus as a muscle to EXCRETE WASTE from the body, not to inject any thing in it as to simulate the NATURAL INTERCOURSE BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN.
I keep hearing the argument that the bible really doesn't teach against being a homosexual, and that the English translations are poor translations to condemn homosexuality. I'm also hearing that a gay person is born this way, and as a result of being born this way, it is as natural for him to be gay as it is as natural for a person to be straight. He is not sexually attracted to the opposite sex, and therefore, if God is love then He understands, knows this person's heart, and allows this person to be gay without any condemnation. A straight man can make the same argument about being born straight, that he's a sex addict, he just can't stop sleeping around with multiple women, and because if he tries to commit and get married, all he's going to do is cheat on his wife. So since he's a sex addict, God knows his heart and therefore he should be given a pass as well.
WE AREN'T GIVEN ANY EXCUSES FOR SIN. The bible teaches that our sins are forgiven when we accept Jesus Christ into our lives, Repent of our sins, and as a result of that become truly Born Again so that we don't continue to habitually drown in sin after God called us to Him. Jesus said in Luke 9:23 that if anyone desires to come after Me, let him DENY himself, and take up his CROSS daily, and follow me. All we must do is follow Jesus, obey God's commandments, and stop using EXCUSES for why it's ok to FORNICATE AND LIVE IN SIN, WHEN NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT TO TWIST GOD'S WORD, A HABITUAL FORNICATOR WILL NOT SEE NOR ENTER GOD'S KINGDOM be it a gay, lesbian, or straight christian.
The Bible implies God endorses a lot of things....some of which would be illegal or unacceptable by today's standards.
For example:
Imagine you were a father of two young virgin girls. Two strangers knock at your door and you let them in. Then a gang of men show up and call out that they want to show these strangers who's boss and humiliate them. They demand that you hand over the strangers so they can rape them. Instead you offer up your young virgin daughters to be gang raped.
The Bible implies that God endorsed this behaviour by Lot.
you know, there is too much time spent on this. Paul said, " we must each work out our salvation with fear and trembling." sure, Romans says what it says. Jesus said the whole law is summed up in this, Love The Lord god with all your heat,mind and soul, and the second, Love your neighbor as yourself.
Jesus also said, I desire mercy, not sacrifice. and that mercy would COVER a multittude of sins. I find when I just read the words of Jesus and the simplicity behind them , all of this mess gets cleared up.
We beat this gay thing up and get as militant as the some in the gay community do. it serves no purpose. each and everyone of us need to work at that 2 mentioned. The holy spirit will do the rest. Jesus, said come as you are... come to me all of you who are burdened and heavy laden. It is Jesus' job, not ours, to clean up the world..
One of my best, old college friends is gay. i love him more than he will ever know...he is my loyal friend... the one I can bare my troubles too. I am so thankful for him.. I could care less what the bible says about homosexuality.
WHAT??????????????????? Sorry, sexual sin is sexual sin. Talk about swallowing a camel and straining out a gnat. How much of the church is lanuishing within the chains of sexual sin and pre-
tend that we are somehow better?? Do you all remember when Jimmy Swaggart fell, how anti sex-
ual sin he was??? I knew of someone then, before it all came out, that said, "He's got his hand in
the cookie jar" Come on We need to take responsibility for ourselves before we start blogging about the sins of homosexuality.
How bout if we start a thread talking about where God is showing us areas in our lives where we need to repent .
I'll start. God has been showing me how impatient and uncompasionate I can be. He is really work-
ing with me to get rid of that kind of stuff
This is so silly! The OT is full of horrible attrocities commited by horrible men. Some of them in the name of god! Did god endorse the raping of women? Cause the guys in OT sure did it a lot! Killing whole tribes? Bashing in the heads of babies? And my favorite is like Jaymax said....the idiot father who handed his daughters over to the pervert strangers to be repeatedly gang raped. Nice book that OT. Full of sex and violence all supposedly okayed by god!
Homosexuality would not be such a hot topic if the homosexual community wasnt trying to force us all to accept their lifestyles as normal. They bring on the criticism themselves by demanding what they do not deserve. This is the problem with all sins throughout history.
Homosexuality would not be such a hot topic if the homosexual community wasnt trying to force us all to accept their lifestyles as normal. They bring on the criticism themselves by demanding what they do not deserve. This is the problem with all sins throughout history.
What are they demanding that you are so concerned about?
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