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Christian doctrine teaches that all that is required for salvation is to accept Yeshua as the Messiah. That once saved always saved. You can do as you please.
Then who are those people in Matthew 7:21-23 who Yeshua is rejecting? They have obviously accepted Yeshua as the Messiah, they call Him Master. They even remind Him of all the good things that they did in His name. Yet He calls them workers of lawlessness (transgressors of the Law).
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign
of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23
I don't subscribe to this theory. I just would like someone who does who can tell me who these people are who have accepted Yeshua as Messiah yet are being rejected.
Christian doctrine teaches that all that is required for salvation is to accept Yeshua as the Messiah. That once saved always saved. You can do as you please.
Then who are those people in Matthew 7:21-23 who Yeshua is rejecting? They have obviously accepted Yeshua as the Messiah, they call Him Master. They even remind Him of all the good things that they did in His name. Yet He calls them workers of lawlessness (transgressors of the Law).
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign
of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I
never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23
I don't subscribe to this theory. I just would like someone who does who can tell me who these people are who have accepted Yeshua as Messiah yet are being rejected.
Probably those who have come to the cross, accepted the Blood for the redemption of their sins, and then refuse to pick up their cross daily and follow their King. In other words, they only went half way, and the the world ensnared and trapped them...but hey, that is my opinion.
I do believe in once saved always saved, but that does not mean I can do as I please. As far Matthew 7:21-23, many people think that if they are good enough and say religious things they will be rewarded with eternal life. Jesus is more concerned about our walk than our talk. Not everyone who talks about God and Heaven belongs to God's Kingdom.
Christian doctrine teaches that all that is required for salvation is to accept Yeshua as the Messiah. That once saved always saved. You can do as you please.
Then who are those people in Matthew 7:21-23 who Yeshua is rejecting? They have obviously accepted Yeshua as the Messiah, they call Him Master. They even remind Him of all the good things that they did in His name. Yet He calls them workers of lawlessness (transgressors of the Law).
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign
of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I
never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23
I don't subscribe to this theory. I just would like someone who does who can tell me who these people are who have accepted Yeshua as Messiah yet are being rejected.
They will probably tell you it is everyone except their church. They definately have the truth and are led by the Holy spirit. No one thinks for a minute that they are part of the many. When the bible says MANY...it means MANY. Who are the MANY that think they are proclaiming God`s truth? Look around you.
I have posted this question before. It is such an eye opener and a reality check! This verse is NOT talking about MANY unbelievers. We know they are many. This verse is talking about MANY who ARE BELIEVERS...they proclaim the name of Christ and seem shocked that they don`t have the truth and THEY ARE MANY! Not a FEW on the fringes.They call JESUS LORD..they think they are worshipping JESUS. Think about about that. `Come out of her my people`
Jesus makes it clear with these types of responses that though they initially accepted they never bore any fruit. Again, Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount, “Not everyone who says, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom”
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-22-2009 at 07:41 PM..
To be known by Christ, one must be vulnerable to His Lordship in allowing the Holy Spirit to reshape attitudes and motivations.
Perhaps they knew of Jesus but refused to be open to His Spirit.
Of course, when asked why one should gain admittance to heaven, one should not begin listing all of one's works.
That's relying on one's own righteousness which is never going to be sufficient.
The only correct answer is, "because Jesus shed His blood for me and redeemed me."
I do believe in once saved always saved, but that does not mean I can do as I please. As far Matthew 7:21-23, many people think that if they are good enough and say religious things they will be rewarded with eternal life. Jesus is more concerned about our walk than our talk. Not everyone who talks about God and Heaven belongs to God's Kingdom.
My question was primarily addressed to those who believe that all that is necessary for salvation was to confess Yeshua Messiah as Savior, and that nothing else, such as obeying Yahweh's commandments were required.
You state that you believe that once saved always saved, but that you cannot do anything you please. This indicates that you believe that there are some constraints upon your actions. Is the penalty for violating these constraints loss of salvation? If not, then how can you say that you cannot do as you please?
Also, what are these constraints? Christian doctrine teaches that all those old pesky Old Covenant laws are either "nailed to the cross," or else only apply to the Jews. The Ten Commandments are Old Covenant, so I guess that they are abolished.
"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of Elohim? Do not be deceived. Neither those who *****, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy of gain, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the reign of Elohim." I Corinthians 6:9-10
Can you accept Yeshua as your savior and then do these things and still have eternal life?
And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?” And He said to him, “Why do you call
Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” Matthew 19:16-17
Yeshua Himself is telling us that we must be obedient.
The truth is that one one gains eternal life until Judgment Day.
"But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should
speak. For it shall be given to you in that hour what you shall speak,
for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking in you. “And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and a father his child. And children shall rise up against parents and shall put them to death. “And you shall be hated by all for My Name’s sake. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved." Matthew 10:19-22
See, eternal life is not granted till the very end, but only for those who endure, and guard the commandments. When it says shall be saved, shall is a future event. If you accept Yeshua as Messiah and then commit any of the sins in I Cor, supra, or otherwise lead an unrighteous life, then you will not have eternal life.
Christian doctrine teaches that all that is required for salvation is to accept Yeshua as the Messiah. That once saved always saved. You can do as you please.
Then who are those people in Matthew 7:21-23 who Yeshua is rejecting? They have obviously accepted Yeshua as the Messiah, they call Him Master. They even remind Him of all the good things that they did in His name. Yet He calls them workers of lawlessness (transgressors of the Law).
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the reign
of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. “Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness!’ Matthew 7:21-23
I don't subscribe to this theory. I just would like someone who does who can tell me who these people are who have accepted Yeshua as Messiah yet are being rejected.
Christian doctrine? Or should you have just said, some Christians believe... because I'm a Christian, and I do not believe this at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
I am a firm believer in once saved always saved also. I believe you can lose your assurance of salvation.
My question was primarily addressed to those who believe that all that is necessary for salvation was to confess Yeshua Messiah as Savior, and that nothing else, such as obeying Yahweh's commandments were required.
You state that you believe that once saved always saved, but that you cannot do anything you please. This indicates that you believe that there are some constraints upon your actions. Is the penalty for violating these constraints loss of salvation? If not, then how can you say that you cannot do as you please?
Also, what are these constraints? Christian doctrine teaches that all those old pesky Old Covenant laws are either "nailed to the cross," or else only apply to the Jews. The Ten Commandments are Old Covenant, so I guess that they are abolished.
"Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the reign of Elohim? Do not be deceived. Neither those who *****, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor greedy of gain, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers shall inherit the reign of Elohim." I Corinthians 6:9-10
Can you accept Yeshua as your savior and then do these things and still have eternal life?
And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life?” And He said to him, “Why do you call
Me good? No one is good except One – Elohim. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.” Matthew 19:16-17
Yeshua Himself is telling us that we must be obedient.
The truth is that one one gains eternal life until Judgment Day.
"But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should
speak. For it shall be given to you in that hour what you shall speak,
for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking in you. “And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and a father his child. And children shall rise up against parents and shall put them to death. “And you shall be hated by all for My Name’s sake. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved." Matthew 10:19-22
See, eternal life is not granted till the very end, but only for those who endure, and guard the commandments. When it says shall be saved, shall is a future event. If you accept Yeshua as Messiah and then commit any of the sins in I Cor, supra, or otherwise lead an unrighteous life, then you will not have eternal life.
Your OP reads like you believe when Christians get saved we can live any kind of style they want and that is not true. A Christian that truly repents will have a change of thinking, living. My eternal life was guaranteed to me the day I accepted Jesus as my Savior.
Can you elaborate please? I'm confused. Thanks![/quote]
You can lose the joy of your salvation, but not your salvation.
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