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Old 01-19-2009, 09:32 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,470,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Stop!! Just for a minute: And consider this, Please?
YouTube - How great thou art


It really does'nt matter................If you're minds made up people, it's just made up. No, let me take that back, it does matter! Stop and consider the goodness of God just for a sec, please?




Peace.
I think most of us here in CD-Christianity know the greatness of God. Well, i would hope so at least.
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Old 01-20-2009, 12:10 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,484,884 times
Reputation: 1326
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
No I am saying the definition of deist has changed since the time of the founding fathers. Many Christians question the divinity of Christ on occasion, but if you would be so kind as to read the actual hand written letters of these dear gentlemen then you will realize they were Christians but non denominational.
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822.


"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson


"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
-Benjamin Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanac


"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it." -Benjamin Franklin

Just a few of the many quotes.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:32 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,892,075 times
Reputation: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822.


"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson


"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
-Benjamin Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanac


"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it." -Benjamin Franklin

Just a few of the many quotes.
Actually one of your more intelligent and factual posts and I agree with it. The Bible has nothing to do with the United States government. Only certain specific individuals/leaders over the years who've tried to push their personal agendas with regard to religion. Although it has been popular for many Presidents to even claim being "born again" , etc, etc, etc, I believe most of that has been nothing more than a public relations career move and going to bed with religious leaders was nothing more than phishing for votes.

Surprisingly the above quoted men were also against giving an oath to a country. In 1973 a book published by a political science professor named, Leonard A. Stevens was written about the rights of Jehovah's witnesses in not saluting the flag, especially when the fire was fueled during and just after the WWII years. I'm not wanting to hijack the thread content on a different subject, but I merely mention Steven's book, "Salute! A Case of the Bible vs. the Flag" because of it's interesting commentary on subject matter related to this discussion. The book was excellent and I think a must read for any atheist, agnostic or religious person. My point is that Steven's has a whole section in his book there referencing the quotes of most of the above quoted famous Founding Fathers of the United States as we call them and their quotes of separation of Church & State and explicit thoughts on no one being forced to give an oath of allegience to any country. As Steven's pointed out, they themselves were rebals. But they were also adamant about a clear separation of the United States from anyone's Church.

Even the official Supreme Court quotes on deciding the famous court cases on this Gobitis children vs United States, where they expressed with strong language of the same separation. Unfortunately for all the Right Wing Christian Fundamentalists, the United States is not a Christian , Jewish, Islamic or any other religious country. It is purely a secular institution which has people of these faith residing as citizens within it. There is no Judao-Christian foundation, other than the people originally involved in it's formation, who may or may not have been religious.

Again, the book is a good read and very neutral. I'm sure right wing religious people will hate it though.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,027,622 times
Reputation: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

"Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind." -Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 1822.


"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson


"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
-Benjamin Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanac


"In the affairs of the world, men are saved, not by faith, but by the lack of it." -Benjamin Franklin

Just a few of the many quotes.
I am sorry, but I have been thru this before and as always the quotes are taken out of context. What most do not realize is that the theocracy of Europe was very abusive and enforced their dogma and doctrines over Biblical truth.

There are just as many quotes for my perspective as there are for yours, but to get to the truth and actual context of the quotes we must look at the minutes from the meetings as well as related journal entries and letters and get a whole picture of the intent rather than bits and peaces that can be misinterprited. Take these quotes of yours in their proper context and you will realize what faith they were talking about. You are not to have blind faith in your government or even in your priest. Your faith is to be in Christ alone.

The Christianity of Europe was not based on the Bible, but instead based on the dogma and doctrines of the Church which as we all know was not following the teachings of Christ.

Here try this; www.wallbuilders.com ; I hope I got the site correct. Now if I provided the right link they are more than willing to address any quotes and even provide further quotes and links to the actual context and related letters and journal entries. They even go so far as to recommend you do some research for yourself and not take their word for it, which is what I always recommend when it comes to doing research.
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: PA
2,616 posts, read 4,007,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
The above is an excerpt from an article about Bishop Robinson and the inauguration. It's evident that our country has changed spiritually during the past 50 years. How sad that secular Christianity is trumping biblical Christianity. If we were ever on a downward spiral, we most definitely are now.
They will be using the same bible that Lincoln used. This Bishop is just apostate.
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:48 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,484,884 times
Reputation: 1326
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I am sorry, but I have been thru this before and as always the quotes are taken out of context. What most do not realize is that the theocracy of Europe was very abusive and enforced their dogma and doctrines over Biblical truth.

There are just as many quotes for my perspective as there are for yours, but to get to the truth and actual context of the quotes we must look at the minutes from the meetings as well as related journal entries and letters and get a whole picture of the intent rather than bits and peaces that can be misinterprited. Take these quotes of yours in their proper context and you will realize what faith they were talking about. You are not to have blind faith in your government or even in your priest. Your faith is to be in Christ alone.

The Christianity of Europe was not based on the Bible, but instead based on the dogma and doctrines of the Church which as we all know was not following the teachings of Christ.

Here try this; www.wallbuilders.com ; I hope I got the site correct. Now if I provided the right link they are more than willing to address any quotes and even provide further quotes and links to the actual context and related letters and journal entries. They even go so far as to recommend you do some research for yourself and not take their word for it, which is what I always recommend when it comes to doing research.
Cry "out of context" all you want, but bluepacific is correct in that America is completely secular with religious people living within. Saying it is a "christian nation" is like saying it is a "white nation" because most of its earliest settlers were white.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:21 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,715,191 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend View Post
Cry "out of context" all you want, but bluepacific is correct in that America is completely secular with religious people living within. Saying it is a "christian nation" is like saying it is a "white nation" because most of its earliest settlers were white.
America was built on Christian principles and practiced them about 200 years.

America now practices and embraces the religion of postmodernism, just look at the winning sides election mottos, "Change", "Yes we can". I heard Beyonce being questioned, what is change? She said, Change whatever you want and yes we can do what we want, in other words, you make it whatever you want it to be. What?! so in other words if I want to paint all the elephants in America pink. I can do it? help me out here. What exactly is "Yes we can". It's an empty promise, means nothing. Obamites are worshiping mightily at the alter of postmodernism. That is the future of this nation. Truth is relative.

Postmodernism and secularism could never have written the Declaration of Independence.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,902,713 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post

Postmodernism and secularism could never have written the Declaration of Independence.
In fact the Declaration WAS a modern invention and completely at odds with traditional religious belief of the times.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:45 PM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,205,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Postmodernism and secularism could never have written the Declaration of Independence.
Except of course when it was..
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:46 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,715,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
In fact the Declaration WAS a modern invention and completely at odds with traditional religious belief of the times.

Actually from the bible I read I don't see that at all. I see no conflict between the declaration of independence and the bible.
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