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Old 01-20-2009, 12:28 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,104,778 times
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Yes, the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible. And, yes, it is biblical. It was something that involved those first-century, pre-A. D. 70 saints! Study the CONTEXT of 1 Thessalonians 4. When Paul uses the personal pronoun, "we," he includes himself and those to whom he initially wrote his letter. THEY were those who would be alive when Christ returned to gather the living and the dead to Himself!

Can we please study the context of passages from which we derive our doctrine?

Furthermore, anyone seeking the truths of God's Word should go to God's Word--not to a website!

Preterist
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Old 01-20-2009, 01:42 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 4,907,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Yes, the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible. And, yes, it is biblical. It was something that involved those first-century, pre-A. D. 70 saints! Study the CONTEXT of 1 Thessalonians 4. When Paul uses the personal pronoun, "we," he includes himself and those to whom he initially wrote his letter. THEY were those who would be alive when Christ returned to gather the living and the dead to Himself!

Can we please study the context of passages from which we derive our doctrine?

Furthermore, anyone seeking the truths of God's Word should go to God's Word--not to a website!

Preterist
Hmmmmmm Maybe the modern day Neo-Nazis are right. Maybe the holocaust never really happened

Don't you just love revisionist history ???

Maybe some production company could come up with a new television program called, Revisionist History Channel!!!
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:31 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,104,778 times
Reputation: 285
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Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Hmmmmmm Maybe the modern day Neo-Nazis are right. Maybe the holocaust never really happened

Don't you just love revisionist history ???

Maybe some production company could come up with a new television program called, Revisionist History Channel!!!
And what is the revision, bluepacific? Could you please address the passage, so I know to what you are referring? Thank you.

Preterist
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:08 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,668,364 times
Reputation: 1860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Yes, the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible. And, yes, it is biblical. It was something that involved those first-century, pre-A. D. 70 saints! Study the CONTEXT of 1 Thessalonians 4. When Paul uses the personal pronoun, "we," he includes himself and those to whom he initially wrote his letter. THEY were those who would be alive when Christ returned to gather the living and the dead to Himself!

Can we please study the context of passages from which we derive our doctrine?

Furthermore, anyone seeking the truths of God's Word should go to God's Word--not to a website!

Preterist
Paul also thought that he might not be alive at the return of the Lord and/or the rapture - I Thess.5:9-10. '...so that whether we wake or sleep we might live with him.'

Just because Paul hoped and made possible that the return and /or rapture occurred in his liftime is far different than saying he definately taught that these would occur before his death. That is not what the context teaches nor is it even sound exegesis.

The timing of which is up to the Lord and for Paul to expect that it might happen is not proof of preterism.

The difference is between possibility and certainty.

Furhtermore, if Paul had taught the certainty of that fact then he was wrong for the bodily resurrection has not happened - and those who diminish that fact or spiritualize it - are false teachers just as Paul warned Timothy about in II Tim.2:17.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:43 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,652,267 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Yes, the word "rapture" is not found in the Bible. And, yes, it is biblical. It was something that involved those first-century, pre-A. D. 70 saints! Study the CONTEXT of 1 Thessalonians 4. When Paul uses the personal pronoun, "we," he includes himself and those to whom he initially wrote his letter. THEY were those who would be alive when Christ returned to gather the living and the dead to Himself!

Can we please study the context of passages from which we derive our doctrine?

Furthermore, anyone seeking the truths of God's Word should go to God's Word--not to a website!

Preterist
Quote:
It was something that involved those first-century, pre-A. D. 70 saints! Study the CONTEXT of 1 Thessalonians 4. When Paul uses the personal pronoun, "we," he includes himself and those to whom he initially wrote his letter. THEY were those who would be alive when Christ returned to gather the living and the dead to Himself.
Preterist,
Could you please supply the book, chapter and verse of when this happened? Thx.

Quote:
When Paul uses the personal pronoun, "we," he includes himself and those to whom he initially wrote his letter.
Interesting remark. Let me add some food for thought here...

Mr 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Notice something very interesting here. The angels are gathering His elect from heaven and from earth.

2 Thess. 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

His return at the 7th trump.

1 Thess. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not *prevent them which are asleep.

*prevent means to preceed or go before.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall *rise first:

*rise means to resurrect.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I content the 'we' and the 'our' is the 'elect' in both
Mr 13:272 and Thess. 2:1. So that is why Paul used the word 'we.' He was the 'elect' of his time and the 'elect' who are gathered at the 7th trump would also be called 'we,'... i. e. the elect.

BTW. I don't believe Paul taught a rapture as it is presented in most churches. I believe he taught a gathering of the elect from both heaven (the dead in Christ) and the elect (alive and remain) when He descends ( means to step down) to the earth and these elect, both will *meet Him and escort Him back to the earth.

*meet has the meaning of a delegation going out to meet a dignatary and escorting him home.


also when one steps down they don't stop 1/2 way or reverse their direction.
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Old 02-16-2009, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,281,181 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1 View Post
Paul also thought that he might not be alive at the return of the Lord and/or the rapture - I Thess.5:9-10. '...so that whether we wake or sleep we might live with him.'

Just because Paul hoped and made possible that the return and /or rapture occurred in his liftime is far different than saying he definately taught that these would occur before his death. That is not what the context teaches nor is it even sound exegesis.

The timing of which is up to the Lord and for Paul to expect that it might happen is not proof of preterism.

The difference is between possibility and certainty.


Furhtermore, if Paul had taught the certainty of that fact then he was wrong for the bodily resurrection has not happened - and those who diminish that fact or spiritualize it - are false teachers just as Paul warned Timothy about in II Tim.2:17.
Yes, Timothy - who 'missed the rapture' - only to be martyred in 97AD.
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