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Old 01-18-2009, 01:29 AM
 
Location: Midwest
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I keep seeing threads and posts about a "rapture".

Can you show me what Bible verses support or describe a rapture?
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Old 01-18-2009, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Arizona
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Technically the word “rapture” is not in the Bible.
Usually (almost always) when people speak of the rapture, they’re speaking of an event which is supposed to happen before the great tribulation - before Jesus returns.

It is thought that they (living Christians at the time) will be removed from the earth and not have to undergo persecution or even martyrdom.
…That they will be changed into immortal bodies and transported out of here and then return again when Jesus comes back again (the 2nd time).
They "prove" it’s validity with this quote:
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

1Thes 4:15,17
Yes, there is such an occurrence of people being changed from mortal to immortal without having tasted death, but the reason is: the resurrection.
At the time of the resurrection, there will be Christians who are alive.
In order to participate in immortality, one must either already be dead, OR be changed from life into life everlasting.

One key phrase which always seems to be ignored is "will not precede".
In the JKV it’s translated: "will not prevent".
The meaning of that is obscure, but it is literal - as is “beforehand” and “precede”.

John Darby, a founder of the Plymouth Brotherhood in Scotland (although he was Irish), is one of the initial proponents of the concept.
It is interesting that he translated the New Testament and this is how he translated the verse:
(For this we say to you in the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who remain to the coming of the Lord, are in no way to anticipate those who have fallen asleep; (4:15)
[end parenthesis in verse 18]

In other words, when the people who are raptured get to heaven (or in the air), they should not be anticipating the arrival of those who have fallen asleep (the resurrected).
This too is a literal translation because the Greek meaning includes “anticipate”.

There seems to be consensus that the resurrection occurs at the end of the tribulation described in the book of Revelation.
The clear sequence of events – even in Darby’s translation – must be ignored for there to be a pre-resurrection rapture.

So if A, (the resurrection) happens at the end, and B (the rapture) comes after A, then B cannot occur at the beginning.

There are various attempts to justify the pre-trib rapture, but in the end this sequence is ignored.
The result is: a secret coming of Jesus when Christians disappear from the earth and the world is stunned and left scratching their heads.
Somehow, a bunch of “tribulation saints” convert to believers and are then martyred by the anti-Christ.

Some reason that these are Jews, because of the 144,000 representing the tribes of Israel. (Rev 7)
While scripture does indicate that Jews will be converted at the end - when they see the One whom they have pierced. (Zec 12:10)
Jews are descendant from the kingdom of Judah (the House of Judah), which was composed of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and some of Levi. (Jeremiah 3)(1Kings 11)
The other tribes made up the northern kingdom of Israel which were banished to Assyria and then dispersed among the nations. (2 Kings 17)
These are known as the lost tribes of (the house of) Israel.

Perhaps this verse will now have a clearer meaning:
"I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Mat 15:24)
I’m now way off topic, but the 144,000 cannot represent these Jews saved at the end, because all the tribes must be represented.

Anyway.. I’m sure you’ll hear from others explaining why I’m wrong about the timing of the rapture.

Last edited by Richio; 01-18-2009 at 06:36 AM.. Reason: punctuation typo and 2 refs
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:04 AM
 
Location: South Dakota
733 posts, read 4,196,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I keep seeing threads and posts about a "rapture".

Can you show me what Bible verses support or describe a rapture?
No. "The Rapture" was cobbled up from various footnotes from the Scofield Reference Bible edited and annotated by C.I. Scofield. A good review of Lutheran theologian Barbara Rossing's book The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation is found here - http://www.tcpc.org/review/review.cfm?review_id=87 (broken link).

To some the "rapture" is an important article of belief - though strangely not set forth in their "inerrant" bible. To others - myself included [and respected theologians like Rossing] - it's bunk. But that's alright. Everyone is entitled to their own conception of, and approach to, the divine.

Last edited by windtimber; 01-18-2009 at 07:29 AM.. Reason: Added the link and comments relative thereto.
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Old 01-18-2009, 07:15 AM
 
5,441 posts, read 4,868,401 times
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Not only will the Bride be raptured before the tribulation period, but also the 144,000 Virgins during the tribulation period.

(Revelation 3:10) "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation [tribulation period], which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

(Revelation 12:5) "And she [Israel] brought forth a man child [144,000 virgin men], who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up [raptured] unto God, and to his throne."

(Revelation 14:4) "These were redeemed from among men [the 144,000], being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

Many claim the man child is Jesus; that is an incorrect interpretation. Jesus is already in Heaven. The 144,000 virgins are worthy of the rapture, just like the Bride of Christ will be worthy. As I have stated in other treads, not all Christians will be counted worthy to make the rapture.
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Old 01-18-2009, 08:38 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,170,747 times
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No. "will be caught up together with them in the clouds" and the end of the world where all things as we know it will cease to exist are part of the same event. The rapturist's must have Jesus returning twice, which is a false teaching. Jesus is The Bridegroom and he will come only once....
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Old 01-18-2009, 10:47 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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Since you have not received much in the way of advocacy for the belief of a "catching away" of the saints, I am offering a website that will answer your questions as to it's validity and scriptural basis. They can explain it way better than I can. Believing or not believing in a "rapture" is not what's important right now......have you accepted Christ as your Savior?

www.raptureready.com

This is a great website, not only is it an excellent proponent of the rapture belief, but they have great articles. Search around the site and you will find all kinds of interesting reading. God bless.
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Canada
589 posts, read 1,349,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Since you have not received much in the way of advocacy for the belief of a "catching away" of the saints, I am offering a website that will answer your questions as to it's validity and scriptural basis. They can explain it way better than I can. Believing or not believing in a "rapture" is not what's important right now......have you accepted Christ as your Savior?

www.raptureready.com

This is a great website, not only is it an excellent proponent of the rapture belief, but they have great articles. Search around the site and you will find all kinds of interesting reading. God bless.
This raptureready.com is strictly a "Pre-trib" website. They believe the rapture is to save the Christians from the Great Tribulation so it will happen even before the Antichrist is revealed.

In their forum, no "Post-trib" idea is tolerated. Any attempt to shed light on why the rapture may not be "pre-trib" will be censored and the poster banned. So beware.

http://www.prophecycountdown.com/pdf/The_Great_Delusion.pdf (broken link)
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Old 01-18-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 10,013,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
I keep seeing threads and posts about a "rapture".

Can you show me what Bible verses support or describe a rapture?
I based my response on the Op's question. He/she is looking for scriptural support for and a description of a "rapture", and I provided a link for that.
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Old 01-18-2009, 03:00 PM
 
Location: God's Country
21,641 posts, read 30,253,245 times
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The word rapture is not in the Bible, but it is Biblical. It will happen.
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Rev 3:10
1 Corinthians 15:52
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Old 01-18-2009, 05:23 PM
 
9,728 posts, read 3,536,120 times
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Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth, Who have upheld His justice. Seek righteousness, seek humility. It may that you will be hidden in the day ot the Lord's anger. ZEPHANIAH 2:3

I wonder if this means we will be hidden like Noah and his family were hidden in the ark during the time of God's judgement. This statement in Zephaniah makes me wonder if we understand the rapture correctly. I think there is a strong possibility that we do not understand it correctly.
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