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I have come across 2 teachings on here that are not biblical and I want to dispel them. I know the word and I am free.
1)Don't be told you have to live a perfect life...you see you can't do it.
2) their sin and repent message... they teach you can't sin and repent over and over. , suggesting we have to live a perfect life on earth.
Paul said, should sin abound so that grace may be in abundance, heavens no! god forbid. Grace isn't a license to sin, but we're freed from the pressure a human on earth can't deal wtih. GRACE IS SCRIPTURAL FOLKS, IT'S CALLED THE NEW TESTAMENT, PAUL PRETTY MUCH TAUGHT IT FOR MOST OF THE ENTIRE NT
3) THEY TEACH YOU CAN COMMIT SINS OF IGNORANCE ONLY, this isn't biblical either.
Read romans 7. Paul explained why his struggle with sin was so debilitating. the things he should do, he didn't, the things he shouldn't do , he does. He even finished with "O wrethed man that I am.
the greatest apostle did not teach this perfect lifestyle
paul taught that if we broke one part of the law, we broke the whole law.
Every handwritten requirement in th law was nailed to a tree Gal 3
the thief on the cross is also the greatest example to dismiss these outrageous presumptions by folks with good intentions.
the rich young ruler in Luke, another great gospel example of why this dogma is untrue.
the thief lived his entire life in sin and was lost. he got in at the last second.
jesus came so that all of our hope would be in him because we can't make it without Him. He is our advocate before God at the throne of Grace. He is our high priest in the order of Melchisidek.
I invite you to read Hebrews too. this will clear up the dogma suggesting
that living in grace is not enough to be saved.
For the record, you cannot categorize sin into 2 nice and neat lists, one of ignorance, and the other....
I do know that God has dealt with me on many things and these sinful desires have been taken away. But I still SIN, FOLKS, I STILL SIN.
OUR WALK OF FAITH IS A JOURNEY, ONE FILLED WITH POTHOLES AND STRUGGLES, BUT WE RUN THE RACE OF FAITH PAUL SAID.
when i sin , i pick myself back up and I am convicted by the Holy spirit, and I move on. that stumble is now in the rearview.
THESE FOLKS TEACHINGS SUGGEST GOD REMEMBERS EVERY ONE OF OUR SINS AND THIS IS NOT BIBLICAL. THE PROHET SAID, HE REMEMBERS OUR SINS NO MORE.
living in grace. "WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE, NOT BY DEEDS"
THESE FOLKS SUGGEST THAT GRACE IS NOT ENOUGH, IF IT NOT ENOUGHT THEN....
we are doomed. .... I am under God's grace and in Jesus loving arms. he came to heal me and if I wander from the fold, He'll come to get me. it is called chastening... he only chastens the ones he loves.
I am sorry and i do respect the right of these folks to put up their own thought out epistle, BUT FOLKS IF IT AIN'T BIBLICAL, IT AIN'T THE TRUTH
Loving intentions, however, misguided and misrepresented, should not be legitimized by no one contesting or challenging them. This is a friendly biblcial rebuke of a false teaching. GRACE AND PEACE TO YOU ALL IN THE NAME OF JESUS!
The only thing I might add here, is that Romans is written as a "Pastoral" letter, and then read to the Romans, as a sermon.
Having said that, now read Romans 8. Read it straight through, starting with Pauls struggle in chapter 7. Then look at how many "ifs" there are in chapter 8. If the Spirit, if you live, if Christ dwells, if, if, if.
Pay close attention to 8:13
Having read it, are we living acoording to the flesh, or are we living according to the Spirit. If we live according to the Spirit, then CAN we sin? Actually, is it even probable? Jesus said go, and sin no more. Why would He say such a command, and then know full well that it could not be done. Or Be Holy, as your Father is Holy. That sounds like an impossible task as well.
1st John is quite explicit. This also is a letter, and should be read as a letter.
Maybe that is part of the problems we have. Cutting and pasting verses out of letters, without understanding the complete context, is something I am guilty of as well.
I think you're right, but this debate centers solely on telling sinners, of whom I am one of the chiefs, that I must live sin free once I have received knowledge of the hidden mysteries.
I was quick to point out that there are areas that I struggled in, that god has removed.
I contested the absolute premise that "sin and repent" was a lie as well
as "the great lie"
In this , they allege that when jesus paid the price for our sins, that it was not enough.. the allege is it a lie to have had our fear of etental punishment removed by virtue of what he did on the cross.
they weave "perfect love" into their debate and suggest that this is the vehicle by which we live this perfect sinless life. BUt only Jesus did that. we can't do that.
"Perfect love does cast out fear." as you suggest in the letter, but make no mistake that what Jeus did on the cross is not somehow sufficient for us to rest in the hope.
Also, they actually allowed "sins of ignrance" that in and of itself was enough for me to have discredited their entire thesis on making a lie out of the cross and what Jesus did.
I agree wholeheartedly with your reply. I'm working out my salvation with fear and trembling , but I'm a bible teacher and student of the word, and Jesus along with paul never inspired, edified or corrected us with this sin of ignorance theology they put forth.
new seekers and sinners need not be afraid to approach this throne of Grace. We serve a god of mercy, love and forgiveness. he is not standing there waiting til the end of the age to destroy you because He revealed his son to you, and in yours and my weakensses, we stumbled and sinned while ( pick a sin, any sin) knowing the truth.
My brothers and sisters, if you break one part of the law , you break the whole law. That is why we need a savior.
BTW, these two two teachings come against the entire evangelical community of bible scholars:
Dr. Tony evans
Dr. david Jeremiah
RC Sproal
Charles Stanley
the late Adrian rogers
Greg Laurie
the late Dr. Lehman Strauss BBN
the late J. Vernon McGee BBN
andrew womack
Dr Donald R. hubbard BBN
hank hannegraff
John MacArthur
and so many others, who teach salvation by grace and faith in Jesus christ.
I have with intent left out all of the "prosperity , name it and claim it, "
money machines that live lavishly, tax free on loving folks who send their life savings for a promise of great wealth
I could add fifty more names , but my point is made.
Can you prove that Jesus was sinless? We really only know most of His life from ± His baptism onwards but according to the law, He did "sin" doing stuff on the Sabbath, claiming to be the Son of God.
Was He an atonement for sin and if so was it not enough?
Something I have been trying to get over is that God is not sin focused and neither was Jesus but before I continue, I will await your response.
what the bible says is he became sin for us. that is not to say he did sin. he was sinless and when he was tempted in the desert, he spoke the word, which is truth, and the devil fled.
do you need actual scriptures in the new testament? I am an airline pilot and just need some time to compile a short essay on the subject which simply will have the words of jesus and Paul , who comprise most of the NT. read acts, gospel of john, romans, ephesians,galatians and hebrews to really get this truth.
second, he was and is the one time substitutionary atonement for our sins. all the sins of mankind , past , present and future.
through faith in him, whereby we receive this grace, it is counted to us as righteousness. god no longers sees our sin nature and see His son.
But god's plan call for us to put on the immortal only at the second coming. He knows we will have struggles while we toil in this earthen vessel, but he is our hope. It is enough. it is the basis for the entire new covenant.
he remembers our sins no more, but when we hold up our own righteousness to him, not of his making but of ours,( which is BTW the performance ,legalistic false doctrine) he sees this as oily rags. ( Isaiah)
IMO we cannot prove He did not sin other than what we read but one thing to consider, if David came to the realization that offerings etc. were not what the Father required, how would the "sacrifice" of Jesus then substitute and as we know traditionally taught, made and end to offerings. This is also echoed in James.
Thus we have two options:
We accept his "sacrifice" and thus His atonement is sufficient w/o anything we can add to it
This however still makes the love conditional making the sacrifice a requirement to fulfill some precondition of a "loving" Father hence the past folk were pretty much screwed as no one was able to keep the law w/o sacrifice which we now know is NOT what He required in the first place.
We accept He did not die as an atonement as He died for what He believed in setting the standard for what we are supposed to do, IOW follow Him. He after all stated that He is the Way, we should take up our cross etc.
This now leaves us with something we have to do, or IOW meet some standard He Personally did not set for anyone.
I am trusting that you can follow my logic here.
Does that not somehow seem where most are at today? Actually a bit of 1 and a bit of 2.
I mentioned earlier that He was not sin focused and we know many times He said go and sin no more but He never said "or else" (BTW I do not view Jesus as anything more than the Son of God so this affects how I relate to Him)
This is where the conundrum comes in and when we "try" to be righteous in our own strength, we make His "sacrifice" meaningless and we are to crucify the flesh daily or the inverse, we fail and also make His sacrifice meaningless or as scripture states, we crucify Him again.
So either way we look at it, we are pretty much screwed.
This was always my biggest problem as it came down to these two irreconcilable "facts"
I mentioned earlier that He was NOT sin focused and by that I mean, whatever "sin" it is you do, you cannot unring the bell. When you are focused on your fallibility, you invariably fall short as you are so focused not wanting to fail. This is being sin focused. From this come piousness and judgment and the ol' beam in the eye ministry to measure yourself as being better than the next man or not as bad as the next man, and we then haul out our sin lists and compare notes.
The root cause of this is viewing the crucifixion as an atonement instead of "Christos Victor"
If animals did not cut it to atone for sin, why would that of a human in Jesus be any different? Simple, man made Him God and thus He sacrificed Himself to Himself. This further confuses the issue.
Did Jesus overcome the world? If yes who was the world?
Was it the unbeliever like the Gentile?
Was it the unbeliever like the Jew?
Who were the religious of the day?
Was the Samaritan a Jew or a Gentile?
Once the veil of the law has been lifted, you start to see that His purpose was not to come and die for us but to fulfill the law. However I view "fulfill" slightly different to the mainstream.
I mentioned earlier, He did sin according to the "law" and these were the accusations brought against Him before He was crucified.
Was He king of the Jews?
Why did Jesus tell His disciples so many times that they should tell no one He was the Christ? Was He scared?
If we cannot unring the bell when we sin, what or how does His "sacrifice" change things personally?
Are we not merely convicted by guilt? Paul said if something is sin to us and we do it, we sin. To others, it may not be sin and hence they do not sin.
All these messages show that we are not to be sin focused and Jesus even reduced the law to two laws. Ironically, the second of loving your neighbor is in fact a Levitical law and not one of the 10.
So where does that leave us? Do we lead a sinful life or do we try not to sin? Obviously the latter is what most would state is the obvious. The problem comes is when we fail, we need to apportion blame IOW our guilt on something else like the devil and claim we are covered by His blood thus we are exonerated. Does that unring the bell? No.
When you are not focused on your own sin and usually in projecting your weakness on others, you find that you tend not to sin. When trying to live up to a standard that He did not set Himself apart from the two laws, you actually find you do sin and as the scripture states it is the accuser.
So most folk find themselves in a position of trying to live up to this unwritten code which is no more than a man made one, just like the religious of His day and thus we have confession and repentance (not metanoia) in cyclic man made rituals.
If we are to forgive our enemies 490 times a day, how is it we cannot forgive ourselves even once when we fail? If the law is supposed to be written on our hearts, what is it that we need to do to improve on this?
This may sound very secular but I sense you will follow my thinking.
In following His two laws, we actually find that they are one. The second is the fruit whereby we achieve the 1st. No need for preaching, evangelizing, simply loving unconditionally others as you would want or expect the Father to love you unconditionally.
The unconditional love is made conditional by all our efforts trying to measure up to something that is not required in the first place.
When you can begin to see it this way, you find that scripture opens up in a whole new way and you see the real message He was trying to convey.
How can you be a sinner and a saint at the same time? Serious question. One willful sin caused God to cast out Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden; that is something to really ponder. God will not tolerate any willful sins, no not one.
The thief did indeed receive Jesus’ beautiful Grace of forgiveness on the cross, but he had no chance to "go, and sin no more". This is our reasonable service.
Another point to ponder is that Elijah, a true prophet of God, was out numbered by 450 false prophets in his day. So it is today. There is a very small remnant that teaches God's absolute truth.
(Revelation 2:2) "I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"
How can you be a sinner and a saint at the same time? Serious question. One willful sin caused God to cast out Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden; that is something to really ponder. God will not tolerate any willful sins, no not one.
Can you prove that Jesus was sinless? We really only know most of His life from ± His baptism onwards but according to the law, He did "sin" doing stuff on the Sabbath, claiming to be the Son of God.
Was He an atonement for sin and if so was it not enough?
Something I have been trying to get over is that God is not sin focused and neither was Jesus but before I continue, I will await your response.
Jesus was without sin, or you would have no saviour or hope for eternal life. The very first recorded word of his ministry was "repent"; so it would be well for you to listen to the words of Jesus instead of the opinions of mortal men. Matt 4:17
"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15
I sincerely hope that you will not join the slanderers of Jesus who falsely accused him of profaning the Sabbath.
THE SLANDERERS OF JESUS
Jesus and his disciples were poor itinerant preachers who sometimes had no certain dwelling place. On one occasion, Jesus said: " ... The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8;20 (KJV)
Like the birds of the air, Jesus and his disciples came to the lowly condition where they plucked their food from ears of corn to satisfy their hunger.
"At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day." (Matt 12:-2)
When the Pharisees saw the pressing needs of Jesus and his disciples, they should have taken their poor brethren into their homes and shared their bread with them. Instead, they hardened their hearts and proved unworthy of the kingdom of God. It was the Pharisees who broke God's law! (See Isa 58:7; Deut 15:7 and Matt 10:6-15)
Men can harden their hearts and oppress the poor of God's people --but God is merciful. In the law of Moses, God made provision for the poor and stranger so they could eat to satisfy their hunger without stealing or breaking the Sabbath Commandment.
"When thou comest into thy neighbour's vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill AT THINE OWN PLEASURE; but thou shalt not put any in thy vessel
When thou comest into the standing corn of thy neighbour, then thou mayest pluck the ears with thine hand; but thou shalt not move a sickle unto thy neighbour's standing corn." Deut 23:24-25 (KJV)
Jesus Christ knew how to observe the Sabbath. He is Lord of the Sabbath! He sanctified it at creation. He spoke the Sabbath Commandment on Mount Sinai, wrote it in stone and will judge all those who disobey it. Jesus said that they were GUILTLESS!
"But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the GUILTLESS ..." Matt 12:7 (KJV)
The scriptures testify that Jesus was without sin. Sin (transgression of the law) requires a sacrifice. If Jesus had broken the Sabbath, we would not have a saviour; because he would have died for his own sins. Those Pharisees falsely accused Jesus of breaking the Sabbath Commandment --and some so-called Christians are doing the very same thing today!
Donna Kupp
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)
The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity freetruth.info
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Jesus Was Without Sin
