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Old 01-19-2009, 06:44 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
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Quote:
We are told to pray for those in high authority and not only if they are believers.
Amen!



1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

1Peter 2:13-17
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the kings as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, as to the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

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Old 01-19-2009, 06:53 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,483,321 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Yes. We have one master, but we are citizens of the lands and are to obey the laws of the land, if they are not immoral. .
There a "but" in there? Why is there a "but" in there? You say we are to obey the laws of the land, IF they are not immoral. Is there anything about any country that isn't immoral to the core? Christians should be walking out of this system of killing and slavery by the millions. There should be a revolt, although peaceful, immediately.




Quote:
Jesus said to render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars and unto God the things that are God's.
In other words, what is the use of a created substance called money? Jesus saying this makes it all the more concrete. "Who's IMAGE is this?"
That says it all.


Quote:
My point was that Obama is not only to be the president of only believers but he is president of all US citizens, all who legally make their home in this country.
But he could fix the mess we are in. John F. Kennedy tried to fix it and was killed. Because we cannot see the bars, we think us and our children are not enslaved, but it is slavery to the utmost degree.



Quote:
We are told to pray for those in high authority and not only if they are believers and we are respect their position. ( Ref: 1 Peter 2:13, Titus 3:1, 1 Timothy 2:1-2) Being a citizen does not mean that we are creatures of the state. We live there.

The amount of Christians in the USA alone could change this country tomorrow, if they had the salt to do it. In fact, creatures of the state is how they look at us. Our Constitution was designed to RESTRICT the Government, at all levels. Most, if not everything, they do goes against our Constitution. Only a TRUE God fearing man would change the mess, no matter the "popular" opinion. Ron Paul was that last hope.





Quote:
Notes: At the time Peter wrote these words that was not a single king professing Christianity. , nor was there one until centuries later. It was a pagan king whom Peter exorted the Christians "scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" to honor. ..The same manner applies to the text in 1 Tim. that prayer should be made for kings and all who were in authority. Here again, the kings were unbelievers. ...One doesn't have to approve of what a wordly king does in order to pray for him. Praying for a person does not necessarily involve approving of his personality or acts.(obvious) ..Christians should make the best of their situation living under their govermental circumstances.." (Hebrew/Greek Word Study Bible) God bless.
Christians should be outside of the system. But we cannot, can we. We have lost the land our founders fought for. We have lost our Constiitution to the power elite. We have lost our money, backed by true worth. We are now losing our homes by the millions. We are now losing our cars by the millions.

God doesn't like His Followers to be in debt. He knows that when in debt, you are subserviant to the debt masters. All Christians should walk away from what enslaves them.
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:04 AM
 
178 posts, read 350,444 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Amen!



1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

1Peter 2:13-17
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the kings as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, as to the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

This is the only role of government and rulers according to God's will. We are to obey and submit if they govern according to God's will. We are to honor and pray for the rulers God has ordained, but we still serve God first and if man's law conflicts with God's Law, then we are to follow God only.
Paul was put in jail constantly for disobeying Caesar's laws when they were in conflict with the Devine Law.

Is the US government one that follows the Law of our Father in Heaven? Do they punish evil-doers and reward doers of good? Or do they entrap and enslave its people through its codes and regulations. Think and pray about this before you come to a conclusion.
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:05 AM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,183,992 times
Reputation: 1331
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown
Yes. We have one master, but we are citizens of the lands and are to obey the laws of the land, if they are not immoral. .

Quote:
There a "but" in there? Why is there a "but" in there?
There is a but, HotinAz because God is our master, not the government. We are instructed to be subject to the rulers, the laws of the land, and I understand this to mean if they are not immoral. If I am a child, I am to be subject to my earthly dad and obey him unless he istructs me to do something that is immoral.

Quote:
You say we are to obey the laws of the land, IF they are not immoral. Is there anything about any country that isn't immoral to the core? Christians should be walking out of this system of killing and slavery by the millions. There should be a revolt, although peaceful, immediately.
We are instructed to obey the laws of the land as presented in the scriptures. Evidently this is God's will. The countries that the early Christians lived in were pagan countries, weren't they, yet they were still instructed to be subject. See above scriptures.

Quote:
Quote:
Jesus said to render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasars and unto God the things that are God's.
In other words, what is the use of a created substance called money? Jesus saying this makes it all the more concrete. "Who's IMAGE is this?"
That says it all.
Not understanding what you mean here. What belongs to the government belongs to the government and what belongs to God belongs to God, is how I understand this. Jesus paid the tax.

Quote:
Quote:
My point was that Obama is not only to be the president of only believers but he is president of all US citizens, all who legally make their home in this country.
But he could fix the mess we are in. John F. Kennedy tried to fix it and was killed. Because we cannot see the bars, we think us and our children are not enslaved, but it is slavery to the utmost degree.
I don't see what this has to do with the statement that I made, HotinAz.

Quote:
Quote:
We are told to pray for those in high authority and not only if they are believers and we are respect their position. ( Ref: 1 Peter 2:13, Titus 3:1, 1 Timothy 2:1-2) Being a citizen does not mean that we are creatures of the state. We live there.
Quote:
The amount of Christians in the USA alone could change this country tomorrow, if they had the salt to do it. In fact, creatures of the state is how they look at us. Our Constitution was designed to RESTRICT the Government, at all levels. Most, if not everything, they do goes against our Constitution. Only a TRUE God fearing man would change the mess, no matter the "popular" opinion. Ron Paul was that last hope.
I was only sharing that are not slaves of the government. We are free to move. We live here and we are instructed to be subject to the laws of the land and to be subject to those in high positions. God's word, not mine Jesus Himself did not seek to change the mess of the government under which He lived, although He was over all. Was it immoral to the core?

Quote:
Notes: At the time Peter wrote these words that was not a single king professing Christianity. , nor was there one until centuries later. It was a pagan king whom Peter exorted the Christians "scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia" to honor. ..The same manner applies to the text in 1 Tim. that prayer should be made for kings and all who were in authority. Here again, the kings were unbelievers. ...One doesn't have to approve of what a wordly king does in order to pray for him. Praying for a person does not necessarily involve approving of his personality or acts.(obvious) ..Christians should make the best of their situation living under their govermental circumstances.." (Hebrew/Greek Word Study Bible) God bless.

Quote:
Christians should be outside of the system. But we cannot, can we. We have lost the land our founders fought for. We have lost our Constiitution to the power elite. We have lost our money, backed by true worth. We are now losing our homes by the millions. We are now losing our cars by the millions. God doesn't like His Followers to be in debt. He knows that when in debt, you are subserviant to the debt masters. All Christians should walk away from what enslaves them.

We live in this country. If we are not happy here, we can move. People made the decision to get into debt. No one forced me to buy this new house We see and we want and so a lot of it has to with us being unwilling to say no if we cannot afford something. Many try to live beyond their means.

This country anyway was founded by taking away the freedom of those who were here before us, is how I see it.

1Peter 2:13-17
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the kings as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, as to the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

"Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution whether to a king as to the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for th punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men." (NAS)

Quote:
Paul was put in jail constantly for disobeying Caesar's laws when they were in conflict with the Devine Law.
We do not only honor/show respect to kings that are believers.

I believe that Paul was mainly put into jail because of the wishes of the Jewish leaders of the day who were trying to silence him. He often received protection from the government. He also brought alms to his nation (Acts 24) In Acts 25 he says that he committed no offense against Caesar. (vs. 8) Was Caesar a believer? God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-19-2009 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 01-19-2009, 12:05 PM
 
178 posts, read 350,444 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
We do not only honor/show respect to kings that are believers.

I believe that Paul was mainly put into jail because of the wishes of the Jewish leaders of the day who were trying to silence him. He often received protection from the government. He also brought alms to his nation (Acts 24) In Acts 25 he says that he committed no offense against Caesar. (vs. 8) Was Caesar a believer? God bless.
The wishes of Jewish leaders wasn't the authority of the Roman law, Caesar was. Here is proof that the Romans did not imprison Paul for preaching about Jesus Christ. In Acts 18, the Jews brought Paul before the tribunal of the Roman Government of Achaia (a Greek province under Roman rule) on the charge of persuading men to worship Jesus (verse 13). The Roman court (Gallio) refused to judge religious matters (verse 15), and "drave them from the judgment seat" (verse 16). This scriptural passage is proof that Rome did not judge people for peaching another god. So why was Paul repeatedly imprisoned by the governing authorities? Paul was in prison for violating the Roman government's law (which are in opposition to God's Law), because Jesus commanded his followers to be separate from Caesar.

There are many "laws" that we follow blindly because we have been conditioned to do so.

Is marriage something we need to ask permission of the government to do? That's what a license is, permission to do something which would otherwise be unlawful. Think about your social security number, driver's licenses, etc. These are all examples of not being separate from Caesar.

We are to pray for and honor the rulers God has ordained to lead, however, they must follow God's Law always. They have no power to make new laws that don't conform with the Devine Law. They must acknowledge from whom they are granted this power. If a government or leader doesn't act in this way commanded by God, then they are due NO OBEDIENCE and we are to separate ourselves from it, just as Jesus and the apostles did during the Roman rule.

The faces, buildings, clothes, and others things may have changed since Roman rule, but the spirit is still the same. We are to follow Jesus' example and be SEPARATE from man's government and not follow ungodly laws.
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Old 01-19-2009, 03:29 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,483,321 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
The wishes of Jewish leaders wasn't the authority of the Roman law, Caesar was. Here is proof that the Romans did not imprison Paul for preaching about Jesus Christ. In Acts 18, the Jews brought Paul before the tribunal of the Roman Government of Achaia (a Greek province under Roman rule) on the charge of persuading men to worship Jesus (verse 13). The Roman court (Gallio) refused to judge religious matters (verse 15), and "drave them from the judgment seat" (verse 16). This scriptural passage is proof that Rome did not judge people for peaching another god. So why was Paul repeatedly imprisoned by the governing authorities? Paul was in prison for violating the Roman government's law (which are in opposition to God's Law), because Jesus commanded his followers to be separate from Caesar.

There are many "laws" that we follow blindly because we have been conditioned to do so.

Is marriage something we need to ask permission of the government to do? That's what a license is, permission to do something which would otherwise be unlawful. Think about your social security number, driver's licenses, etc. These are all examples of not being separate from Caesar.

We are to pray for and honor the rulers God has ordained to lead, however, they must follow God's Law always. They have no power to make new laws that don't conform with the Devine Law. They must acknowledge from whom they are granted this power. If a government or leader doesn't act in this way commanded by God, then they are due NO OBEDIENCE and we are to separate ourselves from it, just as Jesus and the apostles did during the Roman rule.

The faces, buildings, clothes, and others things may have changed since Roman rule, but the spirit is still the same. We are to follow Jesus' example and be SEPARATE from man's government and not follow ungodly laws.
Amen, Amen, Amen,,,SO BE IT!!

People just do not see how the empire of Rome incorporated Christianity INTO their system, not the other way around. If it was the other way around, there would have been NO ROMAN EMPIRE.
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Old 01-19-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,183,992 times
Reputation: 1331
Quote:
The wishes of Jewish leaders wasn't the authority of the Roman law, Caesar was. Here is proof that the Romans did not imprison Paul for preaching about Jesus Christ. In Acts 18, the Jews brought Paul before the tribunal of the Roman Government of Achaia (a Greek province under Roman rule) on the charge of persuading men to worship Jesus (verse 13). The Roman court (Gallio) refused to judge religious matters (verse 15), and "drave them from the judgment seat" (verse 16). This scriptural passage is proof that Rome did not judge people for peaching another god. So why was Paul repeatedly imprisoned by the governing authorities?


Paul was in prison for violating the Roman government's law (which are in opposition to God's Law), because Jesus commanded his followers to be separate from Caesar.
I disagree Paul was imprisoned because of the actions of the Jews and the governmental leaders wanted to keep the peace, and tried to find out what he was being accused of. The Jews stirred up the mobs against Paul and made accusations against him. The governmental leaders where trying to see what the fuss was all about. After listeining to the accusations, they did not come to the conclusion that he had broken Roman law. Paul himself states that he committed no offense against the Law of the Jews, or against the Temple, or against Caesar. (Romans 25) I believe Paul.


Acts 16, Paul was imprisoned wrongfully and was released when the magistrate realized that he was a Roman citizen.

Acts 17. the Jewish leaders stirred the mob up against Paul, saying that he was doing things contrary to Caesar, which he wasn't. They were released.

Acts 18 The Jewish leaders again accused Paul wrongly and Galileo was unwilling to judge him. He let him go.

Acts 19 Paul was cleared of wrongdoing in Ephesus

Acts 21 The Jews from Asia stirred the mob up against Paul and he was imprisoned to find out what the uproar was all about, after being beated by the Jews. Paul was taken to the barracks for his protection in Acts 23.

Acts 23 Paul was moved out of danger and taken to Felix by the soldiers.

The Jews brought accusations against him to Felix, the govener, who kept him in custody until he could decide his case, then kept him in prison to do the Jews a favor.


Acts 25 Festus sent Paul to Agrippa because Paul appealed to Caesar. He says that Paul has done nothing worthy of death and that he is there because of the accusations of the Jews against him.

Acts 26 Festus says that Paul has done nothing worthy of imprisonment or of death and would be released except for the fact that he (Paul) appealed to Caesar. Paul had done nothing against their law.

Paul states that he was on trial because of the accusations made against him by the Jews. Check out Acts 26:

"In regard to all the things which I am accused by the Jews, I consider myself fortunate King Agrippa, that I am about to make my defense before you today...
and now I am standing trial for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers, the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God night and day, and for this hope, O King, I am being accused by the Jews..."




vs 30 and the the King arose and the governor and Bernice, and those who were sitting with them. and when they had drawn aside, they began talking to one another, saying, 'This man is not doing anything worthy of death or imprisonment..."



Quote:
We are to pray for and honor the rulers God has ordained to lead, however, they must follow God's Law always.
I disagree with this and see no foundation in the scriptures for this. I do not see where Jesus or his disciples separated themselves from Roman rule. Jesus submitted to their authority and told the disciples to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are God's. He did not resist when the Romans tried him and put him to death and this authority was given to them by God. It was all God's plan.


1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.



1Peter 2:13-17
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the kings as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, as to the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

I prefer to believe God's instructions on this God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-19-2009 at 05:55 PM.. Reason: spelling error
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:07 PM
 
178 posts, read 350,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
I disagree Paul was imprisoned because of the actions of the Jews and the governmental leaders wanted to keep the peace, and tried to find out what he was being accused of. The Jews stirred up the mobs against Paul and made accusations against him. The governmental leaders where trying to see what the fuss was all about. After listeining to the accusations, they did not come to the conclusion that he had broken Roman law. Paul himself states that he committed no offense against the Law of the Jews, or against the Temple, or against Caesar. (Romans 25) I believe Paul.


Acts 16, Paul was imprisoned wrongfully and was released when the magistrate realized that he was a Roman citizen.

Acts 17. the Jewish leaders stirred the mob up against Paul, saying that he was doing things contrary to Caesar, which he wasn't. They were released.

Acts 18 The Jewish leaders again accused Paul wrongly and Galileo was unwilling to judge him. He let him go.

Acts 19 Paul was cleared of wrongdoing in Ephesus

Acts 21 The Jews from Asia stirred the mob up against Paul and he was imprisoned to find out what the uproar was all about, after being beated by the Jews. Paul was taken to the barracks for his protection in Acts 23.

Acts 23 Paul was moved out of danger and taken to Felix by the soldiers.

The Jews brought accusations against him to Felix, the govener, who kept him in custody until he could decide his case, then kept him in prison to do the Jews a favor.


Acts 25 Festus sent Paul to Agrippa because Paul appealed to Caesar. He says that Paul has done nothing worthy of death and that he is there because of the accusations of the Jews against him.

Acts 26 Festus says that Paul has done nothing worthy of imprisonment or of death and would be released except for the fact that he (Paul) appealed to Caesar. Paul had done nothing against their law.

Paul states that he was on trial because of the accusations made against him by the Jews. Check out Acts 26:

"In regard to all the things which I am accused by the Jews, I consider myself fortunate King Agrippa, that I am about to make my defense before you today...
and now I am standing trial for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers, the promise to which our twelve tribes hope to attain, as they earnestly serve God night and day, and for this hope, O King, I am being accused by the Jews..."




vs 30 and the the King arose and the governor and Bernice, and those who were sitting with them. and when they had drawn aside, they began talking to one another, saying, 'This man is not doing anything worthy of death or imprisonment..."





I disagree with this and see no foundation in the scriptures for this. I do not see where Jesus or his disciples separated themselves from Roman rule. Jesus submitted to their authority and told the disciples to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are God's. He did not resist when the Romans tried him and put him to death and this authority was given to them by God. It was all God's plan.


1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.



1Peter 2:13-17
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the kings as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, as to the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

I prefer to believe God's instructions on this God bless.
The earthly government is to sit on Christís shoulder (Isaiah 9:6), and there is no end to His government (Isaiah 9:7, Psalms 145:13). Those in government are instructed to follow God's Law and serve Him (Psalm 2:10-12). And we are to obey the ordinances of man as long as they do Godís Will; through punishing evildoers and praising them that do well (Romans 13:3, 1 Peter 2:13-17).

You must know that Paul was imprisoned numerous times. He wrote "Romans" in prison. He wrote the epistles in prison. Jesus and the apostles were killed by the Roman governing authorities because they followed God's Law before Caesars law.

We must interpret Romans 13 correctly or Jesus and the apostles were hypocrites. Does verse 1 say, "let every soul be subject unto all governments"? Or does it say, "let every soul (including governing authorities such as kings, judges, police, etc.) be subject unto the Higher Power"? Who do souls belong to? God says:
Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are mine."
And the second part of verse 1 tells us Who the Higher Power is: "...For there is no power but of God." The souls of the governmental powers belong to God, and they are not the higher powers, the higher powers are held by Christ himself (Matthew 28:18). Is our Lord not the higher power, then, if all power has been committed unto him (John 17:2)? Christ is the governor among the nations (Psalms 22:28). All power over earthly kings has been given unto Him (Romans 14:9). All judgment has been given unto Him (John 5:22,27). Notice the separation of Power in Romans 13:1. All power comes from, and belongs to, God (Psalm 62:11) and not the one exercising it. And remember that most men, especially those constituting the "governing authorities," usually deny that power given to Jesus (2 Timothy 3:5).
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,183,992 times
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Hi antjraf, again I will share these scriptures:

1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.



1Peter 2:13-17
Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the kings as supreme, or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, as to the praise of those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men- as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God. Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

All souls are God's and God has given us instructions regarding our relationship with governing authorities. God is over all and it is very clear to me that God has instructed us to be subject to the governing authorities and to pray for all in authority. I prefer to believe God's instructions on this. Again, I see no scriptural foundation that our being subject to them or that our praying for them is limited to believing authorities. I do not see where Jesus or his disciples separated themselves from Roman rule. Jesus submitted to their authority and told the disciples to render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are God's. He did not resist when the Romans tried him and put him to death and this authority was given to them by God. It was all God's plan.

Quote:
Jesus and the apostles were killed by the Roman governing authorities because they followed God's Law before Caesars law.
Jesus was killed because of the influence of the Jewish leaders who wanted him to be put to death. But this too was God's plan, so ultimately this was God's will for Jesus.





We will just have to agree to disagree on this. God bless you.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-20-2009 at 05:18 PM..
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:23 PM
 
Location: England
307 posts, read 441,267 times
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I don't really care what Bible President Obama was sworn in on. Plain fact is that he may not even be legally entitled to the Presidency. Great mystery surrounds his birthplace which may, or may not be, Kenya from whence hailed his father. He is like every politician before him, not all he's cracked up to be. And all this hysteria about the colour of his skin makes me want to give a very unChristian-like scream.

Didn't the great Martin Luther King say that in his Dream 'a man would be judged, not on the colour of his skin, but the content of his character.'?
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