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Old 01-20-2009, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,916,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizabeth7 View Post
Plain fact is that he may not even be legally entitled to the Presidency.
In fact, it has been decided by the courts. The courts are the final word. That is why we had a village idiot as president for 8 years instead of Gore.

Moderator cut: deleted. Report post if or when necessary.

Last edited by june 7th; 01-23-2009 at 04:07 AM..
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Old 01-20-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,152,351 times
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Quote:
I don't really care what Bible President Obama was sworn in on. Plain fact is that he may not even be legally entitled to the Presidency. Great mystery surrounds his birthplace which may, or may not be, Kenya from whence hailed his father.
I believe that if there were legitimate questions about this, elizabeth, he would not have been elected or sworn in as President of the United States.

Quote:
He is like every politician before him, not all he's cracked up to be. And all this hysteria about the colour of his skin makes me want to give a very unChristian-like scream.

Didn't the great Martin Luther King say that in his Dream 'a man would be judged, not on the colour of his skin, but the content of his character.'?
I don't believe that the hype is that people are judging him on the color of his skin, but his accomplishment is a symbol to many people of color and to many people who are not of color. It means a lot to a lot of people who have experienced discrimmination and who never thought that something like this would be seen in their lifetimes. It says a lot about how far our country has come and like it or not, skin color is still an element in our society. Maybe one day it won't be. God bless.
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Old 01-20-2009, 05:56 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,474,139 times
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My my my,,how the times have not changed. Let us see how the Jews reacted when this question was raised to them,

Jhn 19:10
So Pilate *said to Him, "You do not speak to me? Do You not know that I have authority to release You, and I have authority to crucify You?"

What was the response of my King?

Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has {the} greater sin."

Now, pretend that YOU are Pilate for a second,,,and soak that in...and the response was? Better yet, what was the response of the Jews.

As a result of this Pilate made efforts to release Him, but the Jews cried out saying, "If you release this Man, you are no friend of Caesar; everyone who makes himself out {to be} a king opposes Caesar."


Now you are backed into a corner...what to do, what to do....

Therefore when Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out, and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Pavement, but in Hebrew, Gabbatha. Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he *said to the Jews, "Behold, YOUR KING!"


The people who whole heartedly believed in God, the Jews,,,are given their long awaited Messiah and King. Proclaimed by Pilate himself. And what did they have to say to this profound proclamation.


So they cried out, "Away with {Him,} away with {Him,} crucify Him!" Pilate *said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar."


Of course they would say this. If they did not say this, then ALL the sayings of Jesus would need to be heard, and followed. One of the most profound things Jesus said was thst you cannot serve two masters. PERIOD!

Now i know that some will come right after me, and say I am taking things completely out of context. Why Jesus was talking about wealth, or mammon, right? That is what it says, right? But what is that word, MASTER. How is it defined? According to my lexicon, it says:

1) he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
a) the possessor and disposer of a thing
1) the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
2) in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
b) is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants greet their master
c) this title is given to: God, the Messiah


I highlighted the direct definitions, Read them, while we bask in the light that this day, the nation calls upon a man sworn in as President of this land. Remember, we are called out of this. We are called to a Higher Purpose, from a Higher Power, and His NAME is the name ABOVE ALL Names, and His title is way, way above ALL Titles. The King of ALL Kings, and the Lord of ALL Lords.

Why submit to any other, when we have the LOVE of the BEST KING EVER!
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:07 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,152,351 times
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I don't believe that we are called out of having respect for, being in submission to, and praying for those in high positions. Don't forget, HotinAz.

1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

1Peter 2:13-17
13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
15For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
16Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

Christians who submit to the governing authorities and who pray for them are not claiming that the governing authorities are greater than God. We are not choosing the president over our Creator. I know who is King of kngs and Lord of lords. Since I know this, I am mindful of and submit to God's instructions to respect the positions, and authority of those who are governing authorities and I pray for them. Take care and God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-20-2009 at 06:24 PM..
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:25 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,474,139 times
Reputation: 580
Keep posting those letters, I shall stick to my King. I looked up those words in a lexicon, and they are not what they seem.

In Peter's letter, we see we are to be "submissive" to whomever, for the "Lord's Sake".

That is not what Jesus taught. We are to submit to God, and the rightful King, His Son. How can we be submissive to another?

To submit is to, how the Greeks used the word,,hypotassō,,was to:

Quote:
This word was a Greek military term meaning "to arrange [troop divisions] in a military fashion under the command of a leader". In non-military use, it was "a voluntary attitude of giving in, cooperating, assuming responsibility, and carrying a burden".
We are to do this for ALL of mankind, and not follow just to be following, or "alligning" just to be patriotic.

The other Greek word for,,ktisis,,is used as "ordinance" ONLY once and it is in this verse. Otherwise it is just used as creature, or creation,,and there is only One Creator, God.

I mean really, break these verses down, and SEE them for what they are.

First we see "render to whom it belongs" and the "who's image is this"?

My question would be as a fellow Christian, is this. Who's "image" are we falsely submitting to?
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Old 01-20-2009, 06:37 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,152,351 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Keep posting those letters, I shall stick to my King. I looked up those words in a lexicon, and they are not what they seem.

In Peter's letter, we see we are to be "submissive" to whomever, for the "Lord's Sake".

That is not what Jesus taught. We are to submit to God, and the rightful King, His Son. How can we be submissive to another?
HotinAz, I believe that Peter was an apostle of the Lord and I believe that Paul was an apostle of the Lord. I believe that they gave us instructions from the Lord Jesus Christ and I accept this as scripture. It is very clear to me that both Peter and Paul were affirming that we are to respect, be in submission to, pray for those in high positions, those who are in governing positions.

hupotasso=primarily a military term, to rank under; to put in subjection, to subject, in the middle or passive voice, to submit oneself to, to obey, be subject to,

God bless.

1Tim.2:1-7
Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Titus 3:1-2
Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

1Peter 2:13-17
13Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
15For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
16Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
17 Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.

Rom. 13:1-2
1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-20-2009 at 06:47 PM..
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:03 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,474,139 times
Reputation: 580
Well, I suppose we shall agree then to disagree. It is all good. My King set me free both in this world, and the Spiritual. Although we are to give ourselves in Love to those we fellowship with, and those we don't, I will never submt my freedom to any earthly king. Ever.

Logic must dictate that the Roman empire was extremely threatened by the "Good News" of the Gospel of Jesus. Again, what was the "news"? When Jesus was accused, what was he "accused" of? Failure to submit to the authorities...
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,152,351 times
Reputation: 1329
I guess we will have to agree to disagree, HotinAz.

Quote:
When Jesus was accused, what was he "accused" of? Failure to submit to the authorities...
Jesus may have been accused of this, but He submitted to those who were in earthly authority. The only reason that they had any authority over Him was because God gave it to them. He did not resist them, rebel against them, or revolt against them. He said that His kingdom was not of this world. Even when Jesus said that Pilate had correctly said that He was a King, Pilate himself said that he found no guilt in Him but he became afraid because of the instigation of the Jews and the Jews accused Jesus of opposing Caesar. It was God's will for Jesus to be put to death. God delivered Jesus up to them. Jesus submitted to God's will for Him. He did not revolt against the authorities who put Him to death. The good news was that Jesus died for our sins. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-20-2009 at 07:35 PM..
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:30 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,474,139 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
I guess we will have to agree to disagree, HotinAz.



Jesus may have been accused of this, but He submitted to those who were in earthly authority. The only reason that they had any authority over Him was because God gave it to them. He did not resist, rebel, or revolt. He said that His kingdom was not of this world. Pilate himself said that he found no guilt in him but he became afraid because of the instigation of the Jews and the Jews accused Jesus of opposing Caesar. It was God's will for Jesus to be put to death. God delivered Jesus up to them. Jesus submitted to God's will for Him. He did not revolt against the authorities who put Him to death. The good news was that Jesus died for our sins. God bless.
And the great news, also, is that He is our Risen King, lest we forget that fact. Let freedom ring!!!
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Old 01-20-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: NC
11,918 posts, read 14,152,351 times
Reputation: 1329
Yes He is our risen King, Hotin Az. How could we ever forget that? He is our Lord, and our King also instructed us to be in submission to rulers and the governing authorities Night, must turn in. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 01-20-2009 at 07:40 PM..
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