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Old 01-22-2009, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
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The sign, of the prophet Jonah.........................swallowed up by a fish, three days, in it's belly. To God be the Glory now AND forever!
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Old 01-22-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,172,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
all of them
If all of them is inclusive, then I would suppose that that would include all the separatists despite the exhortation by Paul to all the congregations he founded ....As the writter to the Hebrews who by inspiration by God wrote:

Hebrews 10:25
"Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing"


Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
What church in America would that be?
juj,
Any church that preaches anything other than salvation by Jesus' death and ressurection, by faith not by works...

Galatians 1:8,9
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

1 Corinthians 1:23
but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:34 AM
 
1,139 posts, read 1,526,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Most don`t undertstand how the church has evolved and the church system and doctrines of today.
Now do you think that doctrines should Evolve, or should they stay the same. Does the truth change?
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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Sean Hannity, Pat Roberstson, James Dobson, and others are todays Pharisees.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
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Anyone who couches their relationship with Jesus in do's and don'ts and laws is guilty of being a modern Pharisee.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:16 PM
 
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Pharisees and Sadducees are church leaders who lead their flock astray.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:26 PM
 
40,084 posts, read 26,750,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
Anyone who couches their relationship with Jesus in do's and don'ts and laws is guilty of being a modern Pharisee.
Careful . . . the Fundies will just use this as proof of the longevity and core nature of their legalism . . . the Pharisees were the original legalists who had no idea what our spiritual life ( as opposed to carnal) is all about . . . even after Jesus made it perfectly ( and I do mean "perfectly") clear.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
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One of the problems, is that the church leaders today have a vested interest in not telling the truth.....just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. If they told the congregation that all they needed was to develop a relationship with Jesus and spend their time secreted in a prayer place they would have a hard time justifying their wages. On the other hand, if they can make you feel guilty and that you need to be exhorted to confession and repentance, then they get you coming back week after week to help pay their wages and the mortgage on their building.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 1,277,471 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
One of the problems, is that the church leaders today have a vested interest in not telling the truth.....just like the Pharisees of Jesus' day. If they told the congregation that all they needed was to develop a relationship with Jesus and spend their time secreted in a prayer place they would have a hard time justifying their wages. On the other hand, if they can make you feel guilty and that you need to be exhorted to confession and repentance, then they get you coming back week after week to help pay their wages and the mortgage on their building.
They "believe" but what they see is their livelihood dependent upon maintaining and building the list of donating members and also the necessity of abiding by the gospel according to 501 c3.
The people are used to a certain comfort level and to go beyond that might have repercussions.

We're used to being told: we're 'more than conquerors' but not expected to go into battle.
We like hearing that we are to rule, but we're unwilling to submit.
We like hearing that God's job is to supply all out needs, but we want the world.
We like being told that Jesus came to bring us abundant life, but we think abundance means more stuff.
We like not having to deal with the issues of sin and holiness, because "Jesus did all that for us."; now God has to forgive us, because some special words we once said.
We like an "acceptable Jesus" who doesn't seem to challenge us or our perceptions.
We like God to "know His place" (to serve us ), but we're unwilling to serve Him with more than words.
We like doctrine, but don't understand what it's like to be led by the Spirit or experience any renewing of the mind or having His Law written on the heart.

It's what they've been taught and now they teach us, so that we can teach others.

Last edited by Richio; 01-24-2009 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,902,042 times
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"I Myself will tend My sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign Lord." Ezekiel 34:15

We can be taught, but only the Sovereign Lord should lead us.

Good posts, Goodpasture and Richio.
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