U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-22-2009, 03:19 AM
 
381 posts, read 684,251 times
Reputation: 161

Advertisements

I keep seeing the counterpoint by folks that ya'll somehow think this book is alleged to be a substitute. It is not. It simply illustrates a few biblical truths about forgiveness and love. you can read the bible from now until the second coming, but if you haven't mastered the art of forgiveness and love, you're not only a clanging cymbol, but you're not saved. and as John said you make God out to be a liar. You cannot hold unforgiveness toward anyone,period, and enter into the kingdom. you might be on every church committee and have 75 souls saved and chalked up in your "good deeds" column, but if you haven't forgiven your neighbor or family member , sorry. not entering.

...so it would follow that if something came along that helped a troubled soul deal with an internal wound, then it is a good thing. it is not a replacement and we know the word is the "sword" piercing even to the division of soul and spirit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-22-2009, 05:49 AM
 
342 posts, read 468,793 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver View Post
I keep seeing the counterpoint by folks that ya'll somehow think this book is alleged to be a substitute. It is not. It simply illustrates a few biblical truths about forgiveness and love. you can read the bible from now until the second coming, but if you haven't mastered the art of forgiveness and love, you're not only a clanging cymbol, but you're not saved. and as John said you make God out to be a liar. You cannot hold unforgiveness toward anyone,period, and enter into the kingdom. you might be on every church committee and have 75 souls saved and chalked up in your "good deeds" column, but if you haven't forgiven your neighbor or family member , sorry. not entering.

...so it would follow that if something came along that helped a troubled soul deal with an internal wound, then it is a good thing. it is not a replacement and we know the word is the "sword" piercing even to the division of soul and spirit.
As you say this book illustrates a "few" biblical truths.....It also illustrates a few fallacies and omits other truths.....The Bible illustrates ALL TRUTH not a mix......the Bible which is the Word of God tells us we must love and forgive others because we are loved and forgiven by God when we trust in Him and HIS PLAN of salvation through Jesus' atonment; if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven; God tells us in HIS word that we must love mercy because He has shown us mercy, absolutely it tells us clearly that we are to put God's Word into action(our deeds).... .........He also tells us that their are eternal consequences and JUDGEMENT to those who refuse to turn from sin and accept Christ as Saviour and LORD......We are only saved by Grace thru Faith but Faith without faithfulness is flawed........The COMPLETE TRUTH is in God's WORD only......The BIBLE......SOOOOOOOO, if you want to know what God wants you to do humbly read HIS BOOK....... obey HIM.......and submit to His will.

Last edited by Vessif; 01-22-2009 at 06:11 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 06:28 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,473,367 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vessif View Post
As you say this book illustrates a "few" biblical truths.....It also illustrates a few fallacies and omits other truths.....The Bible illustrates ALL TRUTH not a mix......the Bible which is the Word of God tells us we must love and forgive others because we are loved and forgiven by God when we trust in Him and HIS PLAN of salvation through Jesus' atonment; if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven; God tells us in HIS word that we must love mercy because He has shown us mercy, absolutely it tells us clearly that we are to put God's Word into action(our deeds).... .........He also tells us that their are eternal consequences and JUDGEMENT to those who refuse to turn from sin and accept Christ as Saviour and LORD......We are only saved by Faith but Faith without faithfulness is flawed........The COMPLETE TRUTH is in God's WORD only......The BIBLE......SOOOOOOOO, if you want to know what God wants you to do humbly read HIS BOOK....... obey HIM.......and submit to His will.
See, it is posts like this that reek of religiousness. You say:

Quote:
the Bible which is the Word of God tells us we must love and forgive others because we are loved and forgiven by God when we trust in Him and HIS PLAN of salvation through Jesus' atonment
So we are to love others because of what? Jesus said:

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

See the difference? Jesus said our actions dictate our loyalties, and love. Many people come to the cross, and then refuse to pick it up, and follow. They loved their own life, even to the death. While they ackowledge our Savior with their lips, their heart is far, far, removed. I am not directing this at you, but just because we can read a book OUTSIDE the Bible, doesn't mean we do not understand these Truths.

Even June, is thinking. And for an atheist to consider God, after reading so much on these forums, is amazing, IMO.

Only the unsecure in heart cannot read other material, and not feel a closeness even greater with our Creator.. Only the threatened, whether by greed or jealousy, would find such a beautiful story as this a threat to salvation. Only the hardened unloved heart cannot see the love poured into this book, and the joy it brings to others.

My library is small, but wide in range.. I can read anything, and not lose my salvational basic Truths concerning my Creator. It is a STORY.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 06:33 AM
 
4,669 posts, read 4,096,538 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave737driver View Post
It is fictional but the writer ,Young, has deeply woven countless scriptures and used literary skills to deepen our understanding of His love .

Also, I have a better undertsanding of what trusting God is all about.


it is a quick read, leaves you blessed. Peace to all of you.

and nevermind the fact that it's heresy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,574 posts, read 21,729,972 times
Reputation: 18121
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post

Only the unsecure in heart cannot read other material, and not feel a closeness even greater with our Creator.. Only the threatened, whether by greed or jealousy, would find such a beautiful story as this a threat to salvation. Only the hardened unloved heart cannot see the love poured into this book, and the joy it brings to others.

My library is small, but wide in range.. I can read anything, and not lose my salvational basic Truths concerning my Creator. It is a STORY.
This is an excellent post, and I agree with it..My library is very diversified, because I have been an avid reader all my life..I read a variety of things from historical novels, to inspirational, to biographys, to politics and science... and even Anne Rice and Stephen King...(shame on me, huh?) Nothing I have read has ever made me question the existance of God or my faith in him..
I read the bibledaily, I study the bible often, but it is not the only book that shows me the love and lessons of Christ..IMO the lessons from Christ are not confined to the pages between the covers of my bible..I see His lessons around and about many things in my daily walk...and there was a lesson of love and understanding for me in "The Shack"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,031,048 times
Reputation: 627
In actuality it depends on your walk with Christ, how far you are on His path as to whether a book may be able to draw you away. If you are still feeding on milk a fictional book could draw you away from the truth. But if you are feasting on the meat then you can see God in such a book but you will also see the heresy and reject it. Then there are those who feast on the meat but are struggling in a certain area and such a book could increase your doubts, return you to the milk and destroy your faith. We must be cautious because the devil is like a roaring lion seeking those he may devour. I understand that once you are Gods, no one can remove you from His grasp, but if your faith is weak doubts can destroy you.

I have a very diverse library at my house as well as an assortment of DVDs that could destroy the faith of a weak Christian. I automatically look for the workings of God no matter the movie or book, but I do know some who can be harmed or even destroyed if exposed to such things. It is the temptation to one of your strongholds that can destroy the progress you make in your walk and if you are to continue your walk rather than put on hold or reversed then yu must look for God in all and reject the heresies that may be hidden amongst the truth.

Remember satan can come to us as an angel of light and we must filter out the lies with the truth of Gods Word.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 11:45 AM
 
381 posts, read 684,251 times
Reputation: 161
Vessif,
I know the word and what it says... this book just tells a story. I read the bible and don't think book is anymore than what it is..a fiction with alot of biblical references, illustrations and writer imagination.

Unlike any critics who won't play ball and give me the page and verbage for the heresy, I will cite a few examples

page 123
mackenzie, " But don't you use it to restrain evil?"
papa, " We carefully respect your choices, so we work within your systems even while we seek to free you from them.

This references 2Thes 2:2 Only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

papa: p125 " But your choices are also not stronger than my purposes, and I will use every choice you make for the ultimate and the most loving outcome.

Easily a reference to romans 8:28

I saw this writer use scripture over and over in this manner, using his own devices. It is a book and I can't possibly see Heresy in this reference above. it is fiction not heresy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 03:20 PM
 
342 posts, read 468,793 times
Reputation: 101
I'm sorry if my critique of this book is offensive to some members of this forum. For the mature believer who is familiar with scripture it may create little or no confusion......however it does not tell the "whole story".....of man's desperate sin problem without Christ and the consequences of sin and the final judgement.......We cannot afford to support a book like the shack which creates a slanted view of the nature of God.....some imature Christians or non beleivers will read this book and take it as Truth.......we should be on guard because what seems to be good and harmless may not be so harmless to some.......Be Vigilant

Last edited by Vessif; 01-22-2009 at 03:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 03:35 PM
 
342 posts, read 468,793 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
See, it is posts like this that reek of religiousness. You say:



So we are to love others because of what? Jesus said:

"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

See the difference? Jesus said our actions dictate our loyalties, and love. Many people come to the cross, and then refuse to pick it up, and follow. They loved their own life, even to the death. While they ackowledge our Savior with their lips, their heart is far, far, removed. I am not directing this at you, but just because we can read a book OUTSIDE the Bible, doesn't mean we do not understand these Truths.

Even June, is thinking. And for an atheist to consider God, after reading so much on these forums, is amazing, IMO.

Only the unsecure in heart cannot read other material, and not feel a closeness even greater with our Creator.. Only the threatened, whether by greed or jealousy, would find such a beautiful story as this a threat to salvation. Only the hardened unloved heart cannot see the love poured into this book, and the joy it brings to others.

My library is small, but wide in range.. I can read anything, and not lose my salvational basic Truths concerning my Creator. It is a STORY.
Our security is in Christ alone.....We should be clear about that....we who know the truth must speak out when a book (even if it is only fiction)creates a one sided view of the nature of God.......As I said before God gave His son....because man was headed to Hell without Jesus.....the fact is that God punishes sin.....only those who have repented of sin and accept and submit(obey) to Jesus Christ as Saviour will escape the "just" judgement of God.......this is foundational to Christian Faith.....to suggest anything else is deception even if it is a "lovely sweet deception"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2009, 05:00 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,473,367 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vessif View Post
Our security is in Christ alone.....We should be clear about that....we who know the truth must speak out when a book (even if it is only fiction)creates a one sided view of the nature of God.......As I said before God gave His son....because man was headed to Hell without Jesus.....the fact is that God punishes sin.....only those who have repented of sin and accept and submit(obey) to Jesus Christ as Saviour will escape the "just" judgement of God.......this is foundational to Christian Faith.....to suggest anything else is deception even if it is a "lovely sweet deception"

Again, this speaks to the religion, and not from the purest heart, out of Love. You say to submit to Jesus, but how far does this go? Do YOU submit to Jesus as King, or just use Him as your lamb, slaughtered for your sin. Man was already out of God's presence, hense the banishment from and out of Eden. Call it hell if you will.

I agree, repentance is the purest form of Love we have for God. It tells God and even the world, that we are seperate from darkness, and walking into the Light of God's Presence.

But you will never see me walking about with the Word, alone, telling other folks that the ONLY Way to God, is to follow a list of doctrines set forth from any religion, using it like a baseball bat against the head. People MUST come to God as God draws them near. I believe God can use a book like this, to do just that. I have seen it, and even here, you have read it.

Facts are facts. To deny this, is to deny even God. How do you know that it wasn't inspired from the Spirit to write this? You can test them, of course, against other scriptures, but remember, this is a work of fiction. It IS NOT scripture. It is a wonderfully written story, about pain, forgiveness, and God's Love and purpose of humanity, including his only begotten Son.

And by the way, who here even knows the "meat" of the Gospel? I would challenge anyone to show me, as this is given only through the revealing of Jesus to them. The meat is in the mysteries, and the mysteries are just that. It is the complete woven tapestry of God's Creaton, from beginning to end, and from the end to the beginning. As beautiful as it is, it is remarkably complex, even to the most distiguished of Christian minds today.

So, bottom line is this. Who are we to say what and how God might use a person like William P Young? Who are we to say how He would use you? Or me? We live out our lives, placing one foot in front of the other. Are we on the right path, the path that Jesus laid out, or are we but stumbling blocks to others trying to find the path?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top