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Old 01-20-2009, 08:31 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,460,910 times
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fundamentalist
Interesting....you see the one who changed my life, Jesus who taught us how to pray is the
same as our saviour, our redeemer, Jesus Christ.

One is his life changer but teaches us prayer, the other is our saviour
Well, he is the one who changed Rick Warren's life, he did teach all of us how to pray....what's unorthodox about this? I truly don't get it. Should he have issued an altar call? Handed out gospel tracts?

When you pray, even publicly, you are talking to God, you don't use it to necessarily make a statement. That's what a gospel sermon is for. Warren was asked to pray, and in praying he gave honor to Jesus, and prayed for the first family. I see nothing wrong with the prayer. (Though Franklin Graham's was more "christian-ish") It's crazy. If he didn't invoke Jesus he would have been attacked, and when he does, it's not considered good enough. This is rediculous, and it's one of the reasons I don't like to pray publicly. Christians are always parsing your words and expect a showy parade of words, when you're just trying to have a conversation with the Lord.

Just my opinion though.
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:33 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,713,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Well, he is the one who changed Rick Warren's life, he did teach all of us how to pray, and he is our savior and redeemer....what's unorthodox about this? I truly don't get it. Should he have issued an altar call? Handed out gospel tracts?

When you pray, even publicly, you are talking to God, you don't use it to necessarily make a statement. That's what a gospel sermon is for. Warren was asked to pray, and in praying he gave honor to Jesus, and prayed for the first family. I see nothing wrong with the prayer. It's crazy. If he didn't invoke Jesus he would have been attacked, and when he does, it's not considered good enough. This is rediculous.

Just my opinion though.
Well it sounded like a universal prayer not Christian. I would expect a bold, proud, I love our God prayer. people have died for His name and he is afraid to shout His name, his role. He is OUR saviour not athe one who taught us to pray. but that's me.
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:42 PM
 
Location: St. Joseph Area
6,237 posts, read 8,460,910 times
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Fundamentalist, I know your heart's in the right place, but I don't think there's much to worry about here. I view public prayer as a public conversation with God, not a soapbox. Sermons make much better soapbox opportunities anyway

He gave honor to Jesus, and asked God to bless the first family. That is what you do at inaugurations and other public events. It's not really the place to do an exposition through Romans, you know? In any case, I'm off to bed.

In the love of christ,

Good night
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:48 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,713,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mackinac81 View Post
Fundamentalist, I know your heart's in the right place, but I don't think there's much to worry about here. I view public prayer as a public conversation with God, not a soapbox. Sermons make much better soapbox opportunities anyway

He gave honor to Jesus, and asked God to bless the first family. That is what you do at inaugurations and other public events. It's not really the place to do an exposition through Romans, you know? In any case, I'm off to bed.

In the love of christ,

Good night
I respect your opinion but I disagree and yet we still remain civil in the Body of Christ. Good night
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,899,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Could you please show the verses for your claim. I think I have seen this before but cannot find it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
..........public prayer (which Jesus said NOT to do)
Quote:
Matthew 6 (New International Version)

1 "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Prayer

5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Seems pretty clear to me........DO NOT pray standing in the synagogues or on the street (the invocations and benedictions were all on the street today, right?). WHEN YOU PRAY go into your room, close the door, and pray..........Still seems clear to me.........Notice it does NOT say "should not" or "I would prefer" or "most of the time" or some other statement like "Pray in public if you are asked to bless the food" or "Pray in public if you are asked to open or close a service" or "Pray in public if you are in church." Jesus said (some of the words written in red, right? Supposed to be a quote from Jesus?) DO NOT. Let me rephrase that DO NOT pray anywhere but in your closet......with the door closed. pretty clear..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
The Lord’s prayer should be understood as an example, a pattern of how to pray. The Lord’s prayer teaches us to pray. It gives us the “ingredients” that should go into prayer. Here is how it breaks down: “Our Father in heaven” is teaching us whom to address our prayers to, the Father. “Hallowed be your name” is telling us to worship God and to praise Him for who He is. The phrase “your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven” is a reminder to us that we are to pray for God’s plan in our lives and the world, not our own plan. We are to pray for God’s will to be done, not for our desires. We are encouraged to ask God for the things we need in “give us today our daily bread.” “Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” reminds us to confess our sins to God and to turn from them – and then also to forgive others as God has forgiven us. The conclusion of the Lord’s prayer, “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one” is a plea for help in achieving victory over sin and a request for protection from the attacks of the devil.
so far I agree.....it is limited......communication is the key, but Jesus is telling people who are new to going directly to the Father a recipe for prayer so easy a cave man can do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
So, again, the Lord’s prayer is not a prayer we are to memorize and recite back to God. It is only an example of how we should be praying. Is there anything wrong with memorizing the Lord’s prayer? Of course not!
still agree.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Is there anything wrong with praying the Lord’s prayer back to God? Not if your heart is in it and you truly mean the words you say.
Here we separate......reciting anything back to God is trivial, trite and meaningless. Recitation is the key word.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Remember, in prayer, God is far more interested in us communing with Him and speaking from our hearts than He is in the specific words we use.
exactly....it must be from the heart, and NO WHERE ELSE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
(Philippians 4:6–7)
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Nice verse, meaningful, but does not apply to when or where you should pray.....only that you should pray.

Last edited by Goodpasture; 01-20-2009 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,026,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
Seems pretty clear to me........DO NOT pray standing in the synagogues or on the street (the invocations and benedictions were all on the street today, right?). WHEN YOU PRAY go into your room, close the door, and pray..........Still seems clear to me.........Notice it does NOT say "should not" or "I would prefer" or "most of the time" or some other statement like "Pray in public if you are asked to bless the food" or "Pray in public if you are asked to open or close a service" or "Pray in public if you are in church." Jesus said (some of the words written in red, right? Supposed to be a quote from Jesus?) DO NOT. Let me rephrase that DO NOT pray anywhere but in your closet......with the door closed. pretty clear..........


so far I agree.

still agree.........Here we separate......reciting anything back to God is trivial, trite and meaningless. Recitation is the key word.
exactly....it must be from the heart, and NO WHERE ELSE

Nice verse, meaningful, but does not apply to when or where you should pray.....only that you should pray.
Okay you have my attention, but didnt Christ pray in the Garden?
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Old 01-20-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,899,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Okay you have my attention, but didn't Christ pray in the Garden?
Of course he did......but look at the circumstances. He was at a dinner party, He needed to talk to Dad, so he went someplace private. He did NOT pray at the last supper, He did NOT pray where any of His apostles could hear Him......He went out of the house, into the garden and talked to His Father.......alone.

Why do you think I was overjoyed about DOTL going to the mountain? She went to where GOD was able to hear her and she could hear God. She was praying, meditating if you will, but prayer nonetheless, for hours. No one heard her, no one commented on what a beautiful prayer she said.......she just opened her heart and God and her opened those lines of communication that made quoting scripture unnecessary and irrelevant. All the laws of the old and new testaments became irrelevant.......she got on God's wavelength and started learning from the Master Himself.......what a blessing she received.........
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Old 01-20-2009, 10:31 PM
 
40,037 posts, read 26,715,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
Of course he did......but look at the circumstances. He was at a dinner party, He needed to talk to Dad, so he went someplace private. He did NOT pray at the last supper, He did NOT pray where any of His apostles could hear Him......He went out of the house, into the garden and talked to His Father.......alone.

Why do you think I was overjoyed about DOTL going to the mountain? She went to where GOD was able to hear her and she could hear God. She was praying, meditating if you will, but prayer nonetheless, for hours. No one heard her, no one commented on what a beautiful prayer she said.......she just opened her heart and God and her opened those lines of communication that made quoting scripture unnecessary and irrelevant. All the laws of the old and new testaments became irrelevant.......she got on God's wavelength and started learning from the Master Himself.......what a blessing she received.........
This is such an important point, GP (I still can't rep you!) . . . it is why I do not participate in the prayer warrior requests publicly . . . but I do participate. I think it is because of the misunderstanding about the importance of this that most people seem to have difficulty developing a personal relationship with Jesus . . . (just a guess tho).

Last edited by MysticPhD; 01-20-2009 at 10:39 PM..
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:11 AM
 
381 posts, read 683,657 times
Reputation: 161
Psalm 34:1 Let His praise be continually upon our lips... Rick Warren praised God just fine and gave credit to Jesus for changing his life..

what more could you want? God knows the heart... Hopefully , yesterday, a thousand chain emails died a fitting death.
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Old 01-21-2009, 05:38 AM
 
Location: Purgatory
396 posts, read 746,408 times
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Maybe I'm just an ignorant, stupid, heathen Catholic, but I don't see anything wrong with what Rick Warren said. He was leading into the "Our Father." And besides, that's Biblical, so what's it really matter? I'm honestly confused as to what the huge issue here is, other than that some people in this forum really hate Rick Warren.
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