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We are maturing children of God and we each progress at different rates for different reasons. Why is this so difficult to understand? Why do we assume each of us is equally capable, competent, in supportive circumstances, etc. etc.. I have seen parents who were like that . . . they placed expectations on their children that their stage of development precluded their understanding and capability to comply. We do not expect a young sapling to respond to the "winds of life" the same as a mighty oak! Why are we so prone to do so with each other, especially the perfectionists, like Donna and Harold. Being human means we falter . . . saplings bend under even moderate winds . . . they don't just rustle their leaves like an adult tree or mighty oak. Lighten up, folks. Trust Jesus' love for us . . . just don't try to "game" Him. It can't be done.
We are maturing children of God and we each progress at different rates for different reasons. Why is this so difficult to understand? Why do we assume each of us is equally capable, competent, in supportive circumstances, etc. etc.. I have seen parents who were like that . . . they placed expectations on their children that their stage of development precluded their understanding and capability to comply. We do not expect a young sapling to respond to the "winds of life" the same as a mighty oak! Why are we so prone to do so with each other, especially the perfectionists, like Donna and Harold. Being human means we falter . . . saplings bend under even moderate winds . . . they don't just rustle their leaves like an adult tree or mighty oak. Lighten up, folks. Trust Jesus' love for us . . . just don't try to "game" Him. It can't be done.
Kinda like the reference to the "mighty oak"
But I prefer the image of an "old" branch that can "bend" a little,
so as to be able to truely listen and ultimatley communicate with Love.
We are maturing children of God and we each progress at different rates for different reasons. Why is this so difficult to understand? Why do we assume each of us is equally capable, competent, in supportive circumstances, etc. etc.. I have seen parents who were like that . . . they placed expectations on their children that their stage of development precluded their understanding and capability to comply. We do not expect a young sapling to respond to the "winds of life" the same as a mighty oak! Why are we so prone to do so with each other, especially the perfectionists, like Donna and Harold. Being human means we falter . . . saplings bend under even moderate winds . . . they don't just rustle their leaves like an adult tree or mighty oak. Lighten up, folks. Trust Jesus' love for us . . . just don't try to "game" Him. It can't be done.
...Mystic...Hi...After the past couple of days, I've come to understand something that I didn't realize before...and it took Donna and Harold coming to this forum to bring this to light...and you have touched upon it very eloquently. We ARE at different stages of our journeys, and I do understand this. I wouldn't call Donna and Harold perfectionists...I think their message is being twisted because of some accusing them of saying that we have to be perfect...I don't hear that at all...what I do hear is them expressing what it means to truly, and totally be IN the will of God, and not our own. Some here are just missing it, unwilling to "see" what they are really saying, to QUICK to ACCUSE Donna and Harold of saying things that the "accusers" are clearly not hearing correctly! And again, this is because they don't understand...they are not in the place where it makes sense to them. Over and over again, Donna and Harold simply state, and support with scripture what is expected of those who totally want to submitt to God their bodies as living sacrifices..and whether anyone out there believes it or not, there are those of us who DO want to do this! I being one. So why should we, who see this as revelation or enlightenment be accused of being led by Satan...or be accused of being the accuser <<(ironic)...because you don't agree with it?...could we all agree that we are in fact in different stages of our journeys? This forums' posters should be more tolerant of the things we don't understand...how about maybe just reading the topic, and posting if you are interested in learning something..asking questions...RESPECTIVELY...(as someone else suggested that we should do in another post). There are some here with so much hate! Not very Christian like. This forum doesn't just belong to some...this forum belongs to all...all who love God, and His Son, Jesus Christ...and I've yet to see anyone posting a new thread here, on the topics we are discussing who does not! I surely do not want anyone to be hurt, in any way! Are you kidding?!!? I'm just baffled at the misunderstanding and judgement thats' been going on here! Some would say that Donna and Harold are placing judgement upon others...they certainly have not! But I see judgement being placed on them!......!! Over and over again I see what some here are accusing Donna and Harold of, doing the very same thing themselves! It's rediculous! It's senseless...and it's unfruitfull! I welcome Donna and Harold here, because they are teaching me the things that are important to me now...they didn't used to be, but now my ears are in tune with what they are teaching ME. One last point I'd like to make...about the ones who are seeking answers for themselves, and who are new to this forum...I wonder how they feel listening to the hate?...to the intolerance of some?...and the cursing of others? If we were so concerned about them...we would handle ourselves much differently than this! Now, if they came here and saw instead, people who disagree with other people in a more gentle way, I think would be the better way...don't you? They probably would be more apt to ask questions, and not fearing crucifiction! Bottom line...We could ALL stand to improve our walk...in more ways than one!...this whole thing has been very enlightening for me!!...love to all
...Mystic...Hi...After the past couple of days, I've come to understand something that I didn't realize before...and it took Donna and Harold coming to this forum to bring this to light...and you have touched upon it very eloquently. We ARE at different stages of our journeys, and I do understand this. I wouldn't call Donna and Harold perfectionists...I think their message is being twisted because of some accusing them of saying that we have to be perfect...I don't hear that at all...what I do hear is them expressing what it means to truly, and totally be IN the will of God, and not our own. Some here are just missing it, unwilling to "see" what they are really saying, to QUICK to ACCUSE Donna and Harold of saying things that the "accusers" are clearly not hearing correctly! And again, this is because they don't understand...they are not in the place where it makes sense to them. Over and over again, Donna and Harold simply state, and support with scripture what is expected of those who totally want to submitt to God their bodies as living sacrifices..and whether anyone out there believes it or not, there are those of us who DO want to do this! I being one. So why should we, who see this as revelation or enlightenment be accused of being led by Satan...or be accused of being the accuser <<(ironic)...because you don't agree with it?...could we all agree that we are in fact in different stages of our journeys? This forums' posters should be more tolerant of the things we don't understand...how about maybe just reading the topic, and posting if you are interested in learning something..asking questions...RESPECTIVELY...(as someone else suggested that we should do in another post). There are some here with so much hate! Not very Christian like. This forum doesn't just belong to some...this forum belongs to all...all who love God, and His Son, Jesus Christ...and I've yet to see anyone posting a new thread here, on the topics we are discussing who does not! I surely do not want anyone to be hurt, in any way! Are you kidding?!!? I'm just baffled at the misunderstanding and judgement thats' been going on here! Some would say that Donna and Harold are placing judgement upon others...they certainly have not! But I see judgement being placed on them!......!! Over and over again I see what some here are accusing Donna and Harold of, doing the very same thing themselves! It's rediculous! It's senseless...and it's unfruitfull! I welcome Donna and Harold here, because they are teaching me the things that are important to me now...they didn't used to be, but now my ears are in tune with what they are teaching ME. One last point I'd like to make...about the ones who are seeking answers for themselves, and who are new to this forum...I wonder how they feel listening to the hate?...to the intolerance of some?...and the cursing of others? If we were so concerned about them...we would handle ourselves much differently than this! Now, if they came here and saw instead, people who disagree with other people in a more gentle way, I think would be the better way...don't you? They probably would be more apt to ask questions, and not fearing crucifiction! Bottom line...We could ALL stand to improve our walk...in more ways than one!...this whole thing has been very enlightening for me!!...love to all
So Verna enlighten me as to just what the will of God is?
...Mystic...Hi...After the past couple of days, I've come to understand something that I didn't realize before...and it took Donna and Harold coming to this forum to bring this to light...and you have touched upon it very eloquently. We ARE at different stages of our journeys, and I do understand this. I wouldn't call Donna and Harold perfectionists...I think their message is being twisted because of some accusing them of saying that we have to be perfect...I don't hear that at all...what I do hear is them expressing what it means to truly, and totally be IN the will of God, and not our own. Some here are just missing it, unwilling to "see" what they are really saying, to QUICK to ACCUSE Donna and Harold of saying things that the "accusers" are clearly not hearing correctly! And again, this is because they don't understand...they are not in the place where it makes sense to them. Over and over again, Donna and Harold simply state, and support with scripture what is expected of those who totally want to submitt to God their bodies as living sacrifices..and whether anyone out there believes it or not, there are those of us who DO want to do this! I being one. So why should we, who see this as revelation or enlightenment be accused of being led by Satan...or be accused of being the accuser <<(ironic)...because you don't agree with it?...could we all agree that we are in fact in different stages of our journeys? This forums' posters should be more tolerant of the things we don't understand...how about maybe just reading the topic, and posting if you are interested in learning something..asking questions...RESPECTIVELY...(as someone else suggested that we should do in another post). There are some here with so much hate! Not very Christian like. This forum doesn't just belong to some...this forum belongs to all...all who love God, and His Son, Jesus Christ...and I've yet to see anyone posting a new thread here, on the topics we are discussing who does not! I surely do not want anyone to be hurt, in any way! Are you kidding?!!? I'm just baffled at the misunderstanding and judgement thats' been going on here! Some would say that Donna and Harold are placing judgement upon others...they certainly have not! But I see judgement being placed on them!......!! Over and over again I see what some here are accusing Donna and Harold of, doing the very same thing themselves! It's rediculous! It's senseless...and it's unfruitfull! I welcome Donna and Harold here, because they are teaching me the things that are important to me now...they didn't used to be, but now my ears are in tune with what they are teaching ME. One last point I'd like to make...about the ones who are seeking answers for themselves, and who are new to this forum...I wonder how they feel listening to the hate?...to the intolerance of some?...and the cursing of others? If we were so concerned about them...we would handle ourselves much differently than this! Now, if they came here and saw instead, people who disagree with other people in a more gentle way, I think would be the better way...don't you? They probably would be more apt to ask questions, and not fearing crucifiction! Bottom line...We could ALL stand to improve our walk...in more ways than one!...this whole thing has been very enlightening for me!!...love to all
Amen....and God Bless!! To all....
I too have been seeing great and wonderful things being spoken in His word and the Lord Jesus has been giving confirmation through Donna and Harold's ministry in some areas of my life!!
So Verna enlighten me as to just what the will of God is?
Dear mshipmate...I will do my very best...Whoever controls the will, controls the man, is the message behind this scripture: Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto rightousness...verse 17: But God be thanked, that ye have obeyed from the heart that form of DOCTRINE which was delivered to you....verse18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness....verse 19: I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleaness and to iniquity into iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness...verse 20: For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness...verse21: What fruit had ye then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death...verse 22: But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. If God is in control of your will, He will control your actions. If Satan is in control of your will, he will control your actions. If you are in control of your will, self will control your actions. Because your will affects every aspect of your life, Satan's objective is to weaken, divert or gain control of your will...causing you to spend your life following your own will...fulfilling the desires of your flesh INSTEAD OF DEDICATING and COMPLETELY COMMITTING YOUR LIFE TO FULFILLING GOD'S WILL ON EARTH.
God's will for us, His children is to be obedient to Him in His Word, and in this He will reward us the ultimate VICTORY over Satan, either in the rapture or the resurrection. The only people who will be raptured are those who OBEY.
...Mystic...Hi...After the past couple of days, I've come to understand something that I didn't realize before...and it took Donna and Harold coming to this forum to bring this to light...and you have touched upon it very eloquently. We ARE at different stages of our journeys, and I do understand this. I wouldn't call Donna and Harold perfectionists...I think their message is being twisted because of some accusing them of saying that we have to be perfect...I don't hear that at all...what I do hear is them expressing what it means to truly, and totally be IN the will of God, and not our own.
Thanks for the compliment, Verna . . . and I was not criticizing Donna and Harold . . . merely characterizing their message as it seems to be perceived by others here (me included). The expectation that we must be completely free of sin until we die to join Jesus is simply not tenable. Sin is un-spiritual (carnal) thoughts, feelings, attitudes and behaviors. We are carnal beings . . . it is simply not a reasonable expectation, period.
Amen....and God Bless!! To all....
I too have been seeing great and wonderful things being spoken in His word and the Lord Jesus has been giving confirmation through Donna and Harold's ministry in some areas of my life!!
Blessings!
...God I love you so much curly......I thought maybe I had lost you...you make my heart smile...
Thanks for the compliment, Verna . . . and I was not criticizing Donna and Harold . . . merely characterizing their message as it seems to be perceived by others here (me included). The expectation that we must be completely free of sin until we die to join Jesus is simply not tenable. Sin is un-spiritual (carnal) thoughts, feelings, attitudes and behaviors. We are carnal beings . . . it is simply not a reasonable expectation, period.
...I guess everyone's expectations of themselves may vary...As for me, however...I have very high expectations. I'm not saying that I will ever be free from thoughts and feelings...but that I will recognize them immediately, and question whether they are sinful or righteous, and do what I have to, to change them immediately...repent...in the Spirit of Christ...and as far as behaviors..I do expect to be able to make the right choices from now on that will be right in the sight of God, through the power and the authority that I have in Christ Jesus! I know that I am able to do this because of what I have just been through...a life changing test for me...and in it, I made the hardest decision of my life to overcome my flesh, and accept God's will for me instead...thank God for tests!...because it showed me that I CAN be an overcomer, if I seek the heart of God. The more tests that come my way, the stronger I will become...I will count it all joy!...Love
I once was a Law pronouncer. Hard Core to the bone. I also was judgemental towards anything anti-Christian, and most certainly, anti-Biblical, at least according to my limited understanding.
I know ALL the verses being proclaimed for being perfected and without any sin whatsoever. Not even the ones commited in ignorance were excusable. Ignorance of the Laws of God was no excuse for my puffed up pride.
The only problem was this. Although I proclaimed what I knew to be Truth, it was completely deviod of the Love of God. Although I did what I did, because I thought it was what Jesus wanted, I just bothered to never ask. Well, I asked. It was not pretty, by any means.
Now I know I started the other thread, and I sincerely meant no offense to these folks. They believe what they are doing is what God would have them do. My only problem is that they could ALL fit into a single thread. It ALL has to do with the Law and being a Christian.
And I really don't think ANYONE has the right to call someone a "phoney" Christian. God alone judges the hearts of men, period. So my ears perk up when I see judgmental preaching, and this is what it is, preaching.
Also, I don't need to be directed at a website, EVERY single post. Most people will see it at the OP. Just FYI.
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...!! Over and over again I see what some here are accusing Donna and Harold of, doing the very same thing themselves! It's rediculous! It's senseless...and it's unfruitfull! I welcome Donna and Harold here, because they are teaching me the things that are important to me now...they didn't used to be, but now my ears are in tune with what they are teaching ME. One last point I'd like to make...about the ones who are seeking answers for themselves, and who are new to this forum...I wonder how they feel listening to the hate?...to the intolerance of some?...and the cursing of others? If we were so concerned about them...we would handle ourselves much differently than this! Now, if they came here and saw instead, people who disagree with other people in a more gentle way, I think would be the better way...don't you? They probably would be more apt to ask questions, and not fearing crucifiction! Bottom line...We could ALL stand to improve our walk...in more ways than one!...this whole thing has been very enlightening for me!!...love to all
...I thought maybe I had lost you...you make my heart 
smile...
