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Old 01-29-2009, 10:40 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 2,989,388 times
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Default To Call Jesus the Only Begotten Son Means....

After very carefully studying Scripture on who Jesus is, I wondered why doesn't the bible directly and explicitly teach that HE was created or made by God? The word BEGOTTEN implies to me that you can only beget a child that has the same nature as HIS FATHER.

There is nothing else you can beget (unless you were speaking very figuratively). In other words, my son or daughter will inherit his or her nature from me (my genes and my personality). You can use “make” or “create” for producing a child; but when you use “beget” it only means you produce a child that has your nature.

Now think about this very carefully. If Jesus is said to be the begotten Son of God (using the figure from human language to make the point), then Jesus has the same nature as the Father. If Jesus has the same nature as his Father (who is God), then Jesus is divine and eternal as well.

If Jesus is eternal as his father-God, then there was never a time he was literally begotten--which is why we know the language is figurative to describe his nature, and not his beginning. To call Jesus “the only begotten Son” means that he is fully divine and eternal. He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God making him unique (one of a kind) sharing the same nature just like his father.
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Old 01-29-2009, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 8,270,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
After very carefully studying Scripture on who Jesus is, I wondered why doesn't the bible directly and explicitly teach that HE was created or made by God? The word BEGOTTEN implies to me that you can only beget a child that has the same nature as HIS FATHER.

There is nothing else you can beget (unless you were speaking very figuratively). In other words, my son or daughter will inherit his or her nature from me (my genes and my personality). You can use “make” or “create” for producing a child; but when you use “beget” it only means you produce a child that has your nature.

Now think about this very carefully. If Jesus is said to be the begotten Son of God (using the figure from human language to make the point), then Jesus has the same nature as the Father. If Jesus has the same nature as his Father (who is God), then Jesus is divine and eternal as well.

If Jesus is eternal as his father-God, then there was never a time he was literally begotten--which is why we know the language is figurative to describe his nature, and not his beginning. To call Jesus “the only begotten Son” means that he is fully divine and eternal. He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God making him unique (one of a kind) sharing the same nature just like his father.
Be gotten is simplified as He got it, He was the only one to understand at the level of God before He came to earth. He is the chosen one, because we all (those that voted) chose Him before the foundation of the world. To be the Saviour of this world. He was worthy to have the perfected seed of God implanted into the perfect vessel Mary, who was also chosen.

In the Gospel of Nicodemus Satan is railing to his underlings how he was to make everyone love God, Some actually went with him, 1/3. And how He had the SON of MAN hanging on a tree.
His underling rebukes him for bringing an innocent man down to their regions and therefore, by the Light of Christ... lost all sinners forever.

Back to the beginning. Some took no stand, and the others stood with Christ.

Who will give account to the names that are written in the LAMBS book of life, from the foundations of the world, and who's names shall be removed.

We existed, we were there, we can remember if we live according to the principles of Christ. Regardless, God creates then He names. Thats the law.

He is the Begotten, because He got it.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 01-30-2009, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,661 posts, read 27,608,349 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
After very carefully studying Scripture on who Jesus is, I wondered why doesn't the bible directly and explicitly teach that HE was created or made by God? The word BEGOTTEN implies to me that you can only beget a child that has the same nature as HIS FATHER.
You take one word 'begotten' and you fold into it an entire package of doctrine.

'Begotten' is a part of giving birth. And that is all.

Begotten: a seed placed in a womb, grew, and a child was born from that womb.

That is it, and there is no more.

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Old 01-30-2009, 10:20 AM
BST
 
Location: Powell, TN
451 posts, read 709,155 times
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To call Jesus the only begotten Son of God means I trust Him and Him alone. I deny self and all other world religions as a viable means to God. No offense to those who believe "many paths reaching the same summit" theology. Jesus never preached that as part of His Gospel.

There are many brothers and sisters in the Kingdom - all joint heirs with Jesus. But we have been 'born again' by water and Spirit...and adopted into God's family. We cannot claim to be 'begotten' of God. Only Jesus the Christ holds such position.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:10 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 2,989,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BST View Post
To call Jesus the only begotten Son of God means I trust Him and Him alone. I deny self and all other world religions as a viable means to God. No offense to those who believe "many paths reaching the same summit" theology. Jesus never preached that as part of His Gospel.

There are many brothers and sisters in the Kingdom - all joint heirs with Jesus. But we have been 'born again' by water and Spirit...and adopted into God's family. We cannot claim to be 'begotten' of God. Only Jesus the Christ holds such position.
Nicely said.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:42 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 2,989,388 times
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Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
You take one word 'begotten' and you fold into it an entire package of doctrine.

'Begotten' is a part of giving birth. And that is all.

Begotten: a seed placed in a womb, grew, and a child was born from that womb.

That is it, and there is no more.

You are right. The Greek word for begotten is monogenes. Monogenes is used nine times. In every case, it is used to describe a relationship between a parent and child (Luke 7:12; 8:42; 9:38; John 1:14; 3:16, 18; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9). Since this is how the Holy Spirit uses the word in the New Testament, we must accept this definition.

But the bible declares repeatedly that Jesus Christ is the "only begotten" Son of God. This shows that Jesus is the Son of GOD, in a manner no other person can be. It actually shows that he is OF the substance of GOD, and truly Divine. Thus, the term "only begotten" shows that Christ is not a son by title, or a son by creation, but is truly the Son of GOD. What amazes me is that many people, on both sides of the coin are attacking the "begottenness" of Christ. Some who deny the divinity of Christ attack it, and some who uphold the divinity of Christ attack it! So what is it? Jesus can't be God's Son and share his Father's exact nature and essence by being equally eternal and divine?
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,212 posts, read 8,270,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
You are right. The Greek word for begotten is monogenes. Monogenes is used nine times. In every case, it is used to describe a relationship between a parent and child (Luke 7:12; 8:42; 9:38; John 1:14; 3:16, 18; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9). Since this is how the Holy Spirit uses the word in the New Testament, we must accept this definition.

But the bible declares repeatedly that Jesus Christ is the "only begotten" Son of God. This shows that Jesus is the Son of GOD, in a manner no other person can be. It actually shows that he is OF the substance of GOD, and truly Divine. Thus, the term "only begotten" shows that Christ is not a son by title, or a son by creation, but is truly the Son of GOD. What amazes me is that many people, on both sides of the coin are attacking the "begottenness" of Christ. Some who deny the divinity of Christ attack it, and some who uphold the divinity of Christ attack it! So what is it? Jesus can't be God's Son and share his Father's exact nature and essence by being equally eternal and divine?
He can be equal, just not God the Father, He is surely divine. As Peter said we are all to take on the divine nature.

He became One with His (our) Father at the time of His ascension. He did not return to God right after the Cross.
Remember when he said do not touch me, i have not yet ascended to my Father.

Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

Begotten Son came about as He was chosen to be directly from the seed of God, implanted into Mary, He was the only begotten, because he got it. He learned of the higher things fully before coming to earth.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:30 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 2,989,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom View Post
He can be equal, just not God the Father, He is surely divine. As Peter said we are all to take on the divine nature.

He became One with His (our) Father at the time of His ascension. He did not return to God right after the Cross.
Remember when he said do not touch me, i have not yet ascended to my Father.

Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

Begotten Son came about as He was chosen to be directly from the seed of God, implanted into Mary, He was the only begotten, because he got it. He learned of the higher things fully before coming to earth.

godspeed,

freedom
Amen Brother. I FINALLY GOT YOUR POINT! God Bless!
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
21,661 posts, read 27,608,349 times
Reputation: 8693
Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
You are right. The Greek word for begotten is monogenes. Monogenes is used nine times. In every case, it is used to describe a relationship between a parent and child (Luke 7:12; 8:42; 9:38; John 1:14; 3:16, 18; Hebrews 11:17; 1 John 4:9). Since this is how the Holy Spirit uses the word in the New Testament, we must accept this definition.
I agree.



[quote]...
But the bible declares repeatedly that Jesus Christ is the "only begotten" Son of God. This shows that Jesus is the Son of GOD, in a manner no other person can be.[quote]

Okay

The Bible says that many of us are the sons of God, and yet Jesus is unique. We are born of spirit, while Jesus was born of a womb.



Quote:
... It actually shows that he is OF the substance of GOD, and truly Divine. Thus, the term "only begotten" shows that Christ is not a son by title, or a son by creation, but is truly the Son of GOD. What amazes me is that many people, on both sides of the coin are attacking the "begottenness" of Christ. Some who deny the divinity of Christ attack it, and some who uphold the divinity of Christ attack it! So what is it? Jesus can't be God's Son and share his Father's exact nature and essence by being equally eternal and divine?
You were doing so good for a while.

When you stick to Bible, you do great.

Leap out there away from the bible and what do you get?

Guesses
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Old 01-30-2009, 07:39 PM
 
3,065 posts, read 2,989,388 times
Reputation: 1246
[quote=forest beekeeper;7253555]I agree.



[quote]...
But the bible declares repeatedly that Jesus Christ is the "only begotten" Son of God. This shows that Jesus is the Son of GOD, in a manner no other person can be.
Quote:

Okay

The Bible says that many of us are the sons of God, and yet Jesus is unique. We are born of spirit, while Jesus was born of a womb.





You were doing so good for a while.

When you stick to Bible, you do great.

Leap out there away from the bible and what do you get?

Guesses
I'm smiling because reading posts by other inspired believers or well read bible students helps me further defend my beliefs or stand corrected when wrong, after I HAVE PRAYED TO GOD to open up my eyes.

I will say this, NO WHERE IN SCPRITURE does it teach that Jesus was created. With that said the word begotten seems to be the only word that hints at Jesus being brought forth or precreated by his Father. Even if that were the literal case, Jesus being procreated or brought forth HAPPENED THE MOMENT HE WAS INPLANTED IN MARY'S WOMB AT CONCEPTION. I got it, and thank Freedom for beaten that in my head. Jesus is the exact representation of his Father, and that still makes him Co Equal, Co Eternal and Divine.
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