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Old 01-11-2013, 08:55 PM
 
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MT 10:8-10 "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely you have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat."

Jesus expected His workmen to have their practical needs met and they were by grateful people. What they received was not payment but gratitude by faithful people who saw the disciples needs. God looks upon the intent of the heart. Jesus also had a money bag that Judas took care of. It had money in it given to Jesus for His and the disciples needs also. Unfortunately Judas stole from that bag.

It is written,
1COR 9:4-11 "Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas? Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working? Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who plants a vineyard, and eats not of the fruit thereof? or who feeds a flock, and eats not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or says not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, You shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treads out the corn. Does God take care for oxen? Or says He it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that plows should plow in hope; and that he that threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?"

We live in a practical world and serve a practical God.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:01 PM
 
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Default Musicians Charging for their Music

Didn't Levites receive a wage? Doesn't this suggest that in order that people dedicate themselves and their time to producing music of a quality that comes from a trained, dedicated person, their needs should be met to cover the fact that dedication? Perhaps we should be paying dedicated church musicians and artists.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:19 AM
 
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This is an older thread but the answer is very simple.

The Bible states that each one of us must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling? That no one can stand in for the other on judgement day?

The Bible does say that all things are permissible but not all things are profitable? That essentially what one person does may be in fact a stumbling block to another.

Jesus was both human and divine and was able to extend Himself to even dying a death on a cross and by His position, unequaled by man, He atoned for all our sins. Man does not have this capability, but in fact is commissioned to reveal Christ to the world.

However we each choose to use our gifting to do this? It needs to be done with a right balance. If we are able to give away freely our gifting, then we need to do so. Attempting to become wealthy off the gospel liken to many prosperity teachers and word of faith folks, is clearly a questionable undertaking to begin with? But once again, only God is our/their judge.

There wont be anyone to blame or take the heat for each one of us if we arrive at the banquet having lived our lives in such a questionable manner. So, it might be a good idea to simply take care of your own business and not worry about the next person. If your offended by their gospel, then simply move on.

The bottom line, charging or making a living is one thing and preaching the gospel is yet another. However, these two are employed, one assisting the other, I would make very sure again it is considered cautiously. Keeping our focus on the eternal not on worldly materialism while we accomplish this may easily justify and help all of us to carefully preach the good news.

You cannot write books, Bibles, music and many of the helps we use today in Christendom and always be able to offer these for free. If you are able to give away these helps because you are wealthy from owning a secular business, then perhaps God might expect you too at least consider this option?

Bottom line again; a right balance, integrity, honesty, prayerfully considering all things, transparency, and accountability while considering any way, shape, or form in offering the gospel is a great place to begin.

God will be faithful to open doors he wants open, and close the one's He wants closed. We must live, work, and preach His Word(s) by exercising our faith.

Keeping in mind then a general rule of thumb; "What's not of FAITH is sin"? if you have a measure of faith then you'll know what is the right thing to do in all situation?

Marc Wildman
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:04 AM
 
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I am leaning to agree with you I am a musician myself, God gives all sorts of beautiful songs! I feel wrong charging for them. Worship is divinley inspired from Heaven! and it is holy. My songs are like worship/personal folkyish Jesus songs. I know theres gotta be away for me to go on tour so people can come for free and just get ministered to by my music I play cover songs too i charge for those lol.

There should be a Free Christian Musicians guild and we could all travel around giving free concerts liftin up Jesus Christ!

amen i agree with you! All things are possible with God!
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praising Person View Post
Didn't Levites receive a wage? Doesn't this suggest that in order that people dedicate themselves and their time to producing music of a quality that comes from a trained, dedicated person, their needs should be met to cover the fact that dedication? Perhaps we should be paying dedicated church musicians and artists.
There is nothing wrong with earning an honest living. That is the way I see it. No one has to go to any concert. Perhaps the answer would be to give away a certain number of free tickets to people who really would like to go but can't afford it. That would be nice and I imagine some of the Christian artists probably do that.
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:02 AM
 
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Any thoughts on Simony [ making profit off of sacred things ]- Acts 8 vs 18-24
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:50 AM
 
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Unfortunately, as I learned from an hour long conversation/lecture with the drummer (probably not current drummer) from Jars of Clay, the Christian music industry is not immune to corruption and greed. Here was a band that was many times platinum and thanks to the greed of their Christian record label, they could hardly even pay their morgages.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:09 PM
 
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It's a Catch-22 for Christian musicians. If the music is a hobby they do for free, people will complain that they don't have the same production value as secular artists, nor do they have the time to go on tour, etc. that full time musicians do. If they make the music their life's work, they still have to pay for the four walls (food, clothing, shelter, transportation), and people will complain that they should be doing it for free. Of course God will provide their needs - He already has by providing a talent.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:53 AM
 
Location: San Antonio
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unfortunately money makes the world turn, it is the same is the christian world. church is a business, (or has become a business). you are seeking something that will not exist again in this age. it is just th eway it is. We are driven by money.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by carlos123 View Post
I have something on my heart that I would like to express so I thought I would express it in a second thread here .

I am tired of getting cut down and beaten up by unbelievers and God haters so for a while...I might hang out here. Among you...my fellow believers. Maybe not. We'll see.

It may not last long because I don't want to hide out here indefinitely when there is so much work to be done out in the world (in our case in other forums and elsewhere on the Internet)...where the unbelievers are. But for now...I am tired and need a break from the relentless put downs elsewhere.

So here are my thoughts for tonight for what they are worth. If anyone would like to comment I'd be appreciative of your input.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been trying to listen to some great worship music tonight over the Internet but...much of it is unavailable without buying it. Why? Because someone, either the artist or label company wants to make money from it.

Normally there is nothing wrong with an artist making money from his work but we, as Christians are called to nothing less than the standard set by the death of Christ and what He did for us.

Here is an analogy that will hopefully highlight what I want to say.

I (not the real me but a make believe me for the purposes of this analogy) am a top surgeon. The best. I can do things that are nearly miraculous to save people's lives under my skilled surgeon's hands.

I teach you to be a great surgeon. For free. I take time and effort with you. I pay for your education. I give you money to live on while you go to medical school. I am there for your graduation. I am there when you need advice on how to be a better surgeon. And I am there when you are wrongly sued for malpractice. I charge you nothing. I love you and want to help you and make myself available to you. Charging you nothing. I inspire you.

If it wasn't for me...you would have never been able to become a surgeon.

Someone comes to you and says they need to learn how to operate on their wife who is dying in a third world country.

You say you will help them but that you will charge them $16 to do it. They say they have no money. You say no dice. You will not help them unless they pay you.

Their wife dies. And you don't care.

How heartless you say?

What do Christian musicians and labels do?

Jesus Christ shed His precious blood to die for their sins. He inspires them. His Spirit moves them to produce wonderful Christian worship songs. He is there for them when they are down and when they need encouragement to write their next song. He lifts them up and gives them grace to do what they do. They would not be able to write one song or do one thing to be a great singer without Him.

Someone comes along who is so poor that they cannot afford a musicians songs. Hearing their songs might help save their faith. They might desperately need to receive God's grace through the songs that God inspires in the musicians but they can't pay the $16 dollars it costs to get the CD.

They might live in a third world country. But they can't download or hear the song over the Internet because it's copyrighted and illegal to post it and download it.

But they are a part of His Church!

The main surgeon is Jesus. The musicians are the trained surgeon. And the person needing what the trained surgeon can give are the people of God - many of whom can't afford to pay.

And what do musicians and labels do?

They charge $16 per CD to make their music available or else no dice.

Jesus Christ shed His blood and inspires them. Freely He gave and what do the musicians and labels do? They give away nothing unless they are paid their $16 per CD.

Something doesn't seem right about that.

When contrasted with the free gift of eternal life...the FREE gift of eternal life, which is worth more than all the music put out by all music labels anywhere...to charge ANYTHING to a fellow Christian for something that the Lord gifts or inspires in us freely...is nothing less than a disgrace and miserly.

Thoughts?

Carlos

PS. Not all Christian musicians and labels are as bad as any other but when contrasted with Christ's command to freely give as we have been freely given to...they are all not doing what Christ did and would have us do. Give and give and give to love our brethren and win the world to Christ. Without expecting anything in return.

PSS. The same principal can be applied to Christian Counseling or anything else that Christians charge for but which Christ has given them abundantly of...for free. I don't know how many times I have been told that so and so, who really needs help, can't get it because they can't afford Christian counseling. I heard that last night from someone.
You confuse the trappings of faith with the requirements of faith. Churches don't charge admission. Organizations exist that give the Bible away. And if you need counseling, you can walk right into a church and ask to see clergy. Ask and you will receive.

Yet even in service to God, one has to eat and provide for one's family. No, I don't believe that pastors should earn hundreds of thousands of dollars and drive a Mercedes to church. But a pastor should be paid a living wage by his flock so that he does not have to starve. A counselor who has gone through years of medical training has to pay his bills.

Likewise, the artists you describe should be rewarded for their dedication and talent. And by earning a decent living through selling their work allows them to actually produce Christian music in the first place. Otherwise, they might be working in a studio writing dog food jingles or scraping by playing weddings, which means they would not have the time, energy, or ability to actually get their message of faith out by song.
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