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Old 03-03-2009, 06:01 AM
 
70 posts, read 70,744 times
Reputation: 36

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
I'm so glad I'm catholic

Of course, my 7th day Adventist buddy thinks I'd be part of Babylon when the son of Man bifurcates people. <YAAAAAAAWWN>

God bless you! I'm sure you're a wonderful, God loving christian.
We SDA, mean no harm. I'm sure I won't be able to convince you in our beliefs in just one post, but let me just say....

SDA do not think any less of catholics than others, contrary of what many think. We, SDA only preach what is in the Bible. We do not believe that Ellen White comes before the Bible. When studying prophecy in the Bible, we do see substantial evidence on linking the roman catholic church to the beast of revelation. Keep in mind, we do not preach or think that catholic members are evil or immediately bound for hell. But rather, we are talking about the system, power, or church. We are only trying to get the warning out to people. Everyone still has the choice to believe it or not. And everyone still has the freedom to accuse SDA if they want to. And though, it seems like it would be impossible for all of us to ever agree on the same thing, lol....in the endtime, according to Gods word, there is clearly two classes, the lost, and the remnant.

The Bible clearly indicates in Revelation 14:12 that the saints 'keep' the commandments of God. 'Here is the perseverance of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God'. And John 14:15 says, 'If you love me, you will keep my commandments'. James 2:20 says, 'faith without works is dead'.

If anyone is curious on 'all' of what the SDA teach, please visit adventist dot org or look up Doug Batchelor or David Asscherick on Utube and watch their sermons. You may be surprised at what you hear. And whether you belief it or not, it's not going to hurt, to test the churches on all there beliefs, is it?

As far as Ellen White. She was a wonderful christian who wrote many inspirational books and articles. The library of congress, claims her as being the most inspirational writer on the life of Christ, other than the Bible. Please read 'The Desire of Ages' on the life of Christ. The late, great, Paul Harvey read this wonderful book along with 'The Great Controversy', and in 2000 decided to change denominations and become an SDA member. Keep in mind, EGW had a third grade education. There's no way a person with a third grade education could have performed these writings....without help...The Holy Spirit.
EGW has been accused of many things, which are not true, and we do have proof. Any accusations you all might have, throw them out here, and I'll respond. One accusation, was that she committed plagiarism. In other words used others writings for her own. Though, it was common back in that day for writers to use each others quotes from time to time, it was never considered a problem (like today). Also, a non-SDA civil lawyer was hired and took on this case, and read all her work, and came to the conclusion that she 'was not guilty of plagiarism', whatsoever. Another false accusation is that her original writings are locked in a vault, and that the writings in circulation have since changed some. This is not true. Nothing has been changed. However, they are in a vault. And you are free to look at them, through the week, monday to friday.

I was recently asked a few questions from a sincere catholic brother on EGW. I responded. Here they are:

Didn't the idea of SDA as the only 'remnant church' come from her?
The discription of the 'remnant church' comes from the Bible. She did feel she was impressed by God to teach this truth though.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Rev.12:17

Isn't 'the gift of prophecy" actually Ellen White's ramblings? No. The Bible.
The prophet Joel predicted a special outpouring of the prophetic gift just before Christ's return.
He said, "And it will come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; your sons
and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions;
and also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
The Bible warns that before Christ's return false prophets will arise, so we must investigate
carefully all claims to the prophetic gift. Paul said, 'Do not treat prophecies with contempt".
"Test everything" Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil" (1Thess. 5:20-22; 1 John 4:1)
testing the prophet with the Bible
Does the message agree with the Bible? (Isa 8:20, James 1:17)
Do the predictions come true? (Deut 18:21,22, Jer 28:9)

Is Christ's incarnation recognized? (1 John 4:2,3)

Does the prophet bear good or bad "fruit"? (2 Peter 1:21, Matt. 7:16, 18-20, Eph. 4:12-16)

Believe it or not, Ellen G. White meets everything here. Many will disagree, but they are simply not wanting to take the time to read her work, and give her the prophet test.

Are you not beset with divisions? Does Branch Davidian ring a bell? The SDA Church is of no affiliation
with them. Yes, they were once SDA members. But once they formed their own branch, they left the
SDA Church. Their beliefs are extreme and non-adventist, to say the least. (false prophets)


Our Church 'SDA' follows the Sabbath, as Jesus and the deciples themselves did. There is no biblical
verse found anywhere that supports a change from the 7th to the 1st day of the week, whatsoever. The 'breaking of bread' was done on many
different days, not just the first. The Sabbath is a 10 Commandment. It starts with Remember, but
it is forgotten by many.


God Bless

Last edited by bignebula; 03-03-2009 at 06:29 AM..
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 5,636,190 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post
I'm so glad I'm catholic

Of course, my 7th day Adventist buddy thinks I'd be part of Babylon when the son of Man bifurcates people. <YAAAAAAAWWN>
My family is SDA. They consider the Pope to be the antichrist and the Catholic church the spawn of the devil. I don't agree of course; just sayin'
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Montrose, CA
3,031 posts, read 5,636,190 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by bignebula View Post

SDA do not think any less of catholics than others, contrary of what many think. We, SDA only preach what is in the Bible.
Wrong. I was born and raised in that church and I can tell you that they very well DO consider Catholics and Catholicism to be evil, and teach their children that the Pope is the earthly embodiment of the antichrist.


Quote:
We do not believe that Ellen White comes before the Bible.
Perhaps not, but a huge percentage of the church population gives her EQUAL credence to the bible.


Quote:
When studying prophecy in the Bible, we do see substantial evidence on linking the roman catholic church to the beast of revelation. Keep in mind, we do not preach or think that catholic members are evil or immediately bound for hell.
Sure they do. I was raised being told that Catholics were evil. I was prohibited from having Catholic friends, and we couldn't go attend weddings or funerals if they were held in a Catholic church because it was an "evil" place.


Quote:
EGW has been accused of many things, which are not true, and we do have proof. Any accusations you all might have, throw them out here, and I'll respond.
Refute the fact that she was a plagiarist, or that she contradicts the bible, or that she adds to the bible, et cetera et cetera. The fact is, you cannot. Whilst she may have been a shining example of a good SDA woman, she wasn't spoken to by god and there are a lot of things about her that are embarrassing to your church. Fortunately in the last 20 years or so, it is looking like many in your church are moving farther and farther away from treating her as a prophet, and recognize the fact that a huge portion of her writings are not her work at all, and in fact are ripped straight from other authors.

Quote:
One accusation, was that she committed plagiarism. In other words used others writings for her own. Though, it was common back in that day for writers to use each others quotes from time to time, it was never considered a problem (like today).
This is typical SDA reaction when confronted with the truth about their so-called prophet. She didn't "use other authors' quotes from time to time". She plagiarized pages and pages of text, including USING THE SAME ILLUSTRATIONS from books she plagiarized. She outright stole copy from other authors and passed it off as her own. And in fact her husband wrote much of the other work attributed to her.

Quote:
There's no way a person with a third grade education could have performed these writings....without help...The Holy Spirit.
Well, when you're just copying from other writers, it doesn't take a lot of education. Besides, I was reading and writing at a high school level when I was in third grade, so what?

Look, if you want to say EGW's works inspire you, great. Just don't call them her original work, and don't call her a prophet because she was neither.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:06 PM
 
70 posts, read 70,744 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuSuSushi View Post
Wrong. I was born and raised in that church and I can tell you that they very well DO consider Catholics and Catholicism to be evil, and teach their children that the Pope is the earthly embodiment of the antichrist. Pope an antichrist yes. He claims to be the Vicar of God aka replacement for Christ. that is blasphemy. The Church, [in doctrinal catechism pg 174] claims she had the 'mark of authority' to change the Sabbath from the 7th to the 1st day. They also omitted the commandment about idolatry, to get them off the hook on all there idolotry. Ofcourse you can't change Gods Sabbath or law. Thats why Daniel 7:25 says 'to think to change times and laws' when referring to the end-time beast. There's tons more in Revelation describing them to a T. Purple and scarlet in color. Cup full of blasphemy. A kingdom on 'the seven hills'. The number of the man is 666. The popes mitre which he wears on his head, says ''Vicarius Filii Dei". The letters add up to 666. Theres much more.
Despite all this. Most Catholics and Adventists still get along. They in return bash Ellen White. Where do you think all her accusations came from? I have many catholic friends. We joke about all this. Although, I have convinced several to leave that church and become SDA members. Once again we're against their system or church, not their members.


Perhaps not, but a huge percentage of the church population gives her EQUAL credence to the bible. This is simply not true. I've been a member for 37 years, and havn't met one. I'm sure theres somebody out there that does. It would be rather foolish. Most likely they are a branch off, if they believe that. BTW, this is a big 'false' accusation that has no relevency. Atleast we have scriptural proof on our accusations on the RCC.


Sure they do. I was raised being told that Catholics were evil. I was prohibited from having Catholic friends, and we couldn't go attend weddings or funerals if they were held in a Catholic church because it was an "evil" place. Well, either your family has got the wrong idea (hating the people instead of the system) or you were young and it came across wrong. I myself would go visit them at their place of worship. But, I would not take in the pagan ritual acts, like Lent, or those ones where they have a skull on a plate. Too weird for me.



Refute the fact that she was a plagiarist, or that she contradicts the bible, or that she adds to the bible, et cetera et cetera. The fact is, you cannot. Whilst she may have been a shining example of a good SDA woman, she wasn't spoken to by god and there are a lot of things about her that are embarrassing to your church. Fortunately in the last 20 years or so, it is looking like many in your church are moving farther and farther away from treating her as a prophet, and recognize the fact that a huge portion of her writings are not her work at all, and in fact are ripped straight from other authors. I tell you what. You can read all her books yourself, and I'll give you $1000, if you find one thing that goes against scripture. Most people are amazed when they do read them, as there just isn't anything like it, except the Bible. As far as plagiarist, its just not so. You can go to the EGW website and get the lawyers name, and look up the case, or you can read all her 90+ books and articles. You won't find anything, other than what I already mentioned, which was common to use a few quotes from others. Jesus even used quotes from prophets in the Bible. Was he a plagiarist? Embarassing? No. Another misconception is that our Church is falling apart, etc. That couldn't be any farther from the truth. Every church looses members every year. The fact is the members we gain every year, far exceeds our losses. And yes, the RCC has many more members than any church in the world. And you'll find that Gods people, were always in the minority. Look at Noahs day. Only 8 made it out of millions. And the endtime, according to Jesus and prophets, is going to be similar to Noahs time.


This is typical SDA reaction when confronted with the truth about their so-called prophet. She didn't "use other authors' quotes from time to time". She plagiarized pages and pages of text, including USING THE SAME ILLUSTRATIONS from books she plagiarized. She outright stole copy from other authors and passed it off as her own. And in fact her husband wrote much of the other work attributed to her. Nope. Like I said, her writings are in a vault that can be visited any week day. Its in Wash D.C. at the EGW Estate. There, you can read whatever you like, and compare to any other writers, or you can continue making the 'famous' false accusations that many make. And like I said before, anyone is free to think what they want about SDA. We accuse the RCC. Its of no surprise that they have returned the favor. Only we have scripture to back up 'everything' we say.


Well, when you're just copying from other writers, it doesn't take a lot of education. Besides, I was reading and writing at a high school level when I was in third grade, so what? Read 'The Desire of Ages' and then tell me any 3rd grade education could write that. To a non believer, this will sound strong, but she was a prophet. She passed the prophet test. And it seems that, God chose her as 'a prophet' knowing her limited education, so that when witness' and readers experienced her inspired writings, they would know, the Holy Spirit, was present. You do know the end-time peope have the 'spirit of prophecy'. And once you hear it all and fully understand it, there is not one bit of doubt what is going to heppen. And why does that sound far fetched to people, when Gods Word tells us of these things will happen? Its funny how millions of people will believe a false prophet like 'Nostradamos' but will not even consider someone who had 'the good fruits'. Like I said before, Joel the prophet, spoke of there being prophets in the end-times. And that goes for false and true.

Look, if you want to say EGW's works inspire you, great. Just don't call them her original work, and don't call her a prophet because she was neither.
Well I will call them her original, and I will call her a prophet of God. Because its simply true. If any of you would just read her writings, you would see it is uplifting God and his Word, and that the prophecy we teach, is 'all' from the Bible. A prophet isn't some weirdo that does magic tricks or something. They are Christians. They don't have false teachings. They do not diverge from Gods Word. And they live like a Christian would, in other words 'by their fruits' you will know them. And besides, the message that she brought out in the light, which is all from scripture, is warning us that the end is near, and that soon as the true gospel is preached to the world, the end will come. Christs only delay, is because he wants to save as many as he can. Its a shame the majority of the world are involved with all the earthly things, and don't even know their Lord.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:27 PM
 
20 posts, read 27,147 times
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Default The Health Message: BIBLICAL!

[quote=Donna Kupp;7259259]IS ELLEN WHITE TEACHING "ANOTHER GOSPEL" WHEN SHE SAYS THAT HEALTH REFORM IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ELLEN WHITE ....

"The LORD has given instruction that the Gospel is to be carried forward; and the GOSPEL INCLUDES HEALTH REFORM in all its phases." CDF p.75

"God demands that the appetites be cleansed...This is a work that will have to be done before HIS PEOPLE can stand before Him a perfected people." CDF p. 36

"…one of the highest attainments in the Christian life is to control appetite, and that, without this victory, all hope of heaven is vain." James and Ellen White - Christian Temperance 206

"The meat diet is the serious question. Shall HUMAN BEINGS live on the flesh of dead animals. The answer from the light GOD HAS GIVEN ME is, No, decidedly NO. CDF, p. 388

I wanted to deal with this first. Does the Bible talk about food? Yes. Does Mrs. White teach anything different to what the Bible teaches? No.

Lets think about the first diet given to the human race. Genesis 1:29,30
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so."
Man and beast alike were given fruits and seeds, nuts, and grains all things green thing that had seeds.

Then after sin, when the human race began to die God added something different. Gen 3:18 "Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;" We know these as vegetables.

After the flood when the world was in someway destroyed God gave Noah an emergency diet. We find that in Noah's time there was an understanding of clean and unclean meat. In Gen. 9:3 God says "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things." So every moving things as the herbs are given. How did God give the herbs? He specified which they should eat in the garden or Eden those with seeds. So when God told Noah what He should eat there were specifications of clean and unclean meats. Again this is an emergency diet. You will see why in a minute.

The children of Isreal were in bondage for 400 years before God sent Moses to deliever them. Hsa 12:13 And by a prophet the LORD brought Israel out of Egypt, and by a prophet was he preserved.

While God was teaching the Children of Isreal about Himself, He gave them a specific diet... read about it in Exodus 16. God gave Manna everymorning for them to eat and meat in the evening, becasue the complained. So we have 2 meals one early before the sun came up and one in the afternon or so.

It was the mixed multitude that wanted to eat meat in the desert saying in Numbers 11 "We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick: But now our soul [is] dried away: [there is] nothing at all, beside this manna, [before] our eyes.

We see that God moved them from a transitionary diet from the one they had in Egypt to a vegetarian diet.

You will find in reading Leviticus in the sanctuary service a lesson about what was meat. Lev 2 "And when any will offer a meat offering unto the LORD, his offering shall be [of] fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:"

God also had Moses record the laws in which animal were clean and unclean. REmember that the flesh that was eaten was eaten by the priests in the sanctuary and on the passover. You can find these in Lev 11.

Moses also recorded specific laws in regards to the clean meats in Lev 7.
There are four:
You should never eat the fat Lev 7:23
YOu should not eat flesh of animals that dies of themsleves (sickly) Lev 7:24
You should not eat flesh of animals that are torn of beast (killed by another animal- usually weak or sick animals) Lev 7:24
You should never eat flesh that has blood in it. Lev 7:26

In the world today find meat that is sold that has no blood or fat in it and no disease. You can't!

What did God say were the concequences of this? Whatsoever soul [it be] that eateth any manner of blood, even that soul shall be cut off from his people.

Even when He gave Noah the emergency diet He said "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man." Gen 9:5

The flesh that God allowed in the sanctuary service were types. The animals were to be clean healthy, without spot or blemish becasue they represented the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world - Our Lord Jesus Christ. John 1:29

God asks us to watch our diet. In the New Testament He shows that without eating well we will be lost.

Ecc 10:17 Blessed [art] thou, O land, when thy king [is] the son of nobles, and thy princes eat in due season, for strength, and not for drunkenness!

1Cr 6:12,13 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

The things that are allowed are not always the best for us. God gives us direction so we may know what is the best for us.

Phl 3:19 Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

We are to eat what God tells us if we are to follow the 10 Commandments. If God tells us that we should eat the diet eaten in Eden. We have a chioce to follow God or to break the first commandment (therefore all the commandments) and eat what we want.

God does it for our good and gives us a promise in Exo. 15:26 "And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee."
But this is with the requirement of heeding the counsel given. The importance is placed on it so we might know how to give glory to God and bear much spiritual fruit.

1Cr 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

If we do not learn temperance we will not make it to heaven just as Paul says, in 2 Perter 1. Even if you have faith, virtue and knowledge without temperance you will not more on to patience. Without patience there is no salvation.

Get more of the study from The Early Rain Experience « The Loud Cry

Listen to H: Diet and Spirituality.

Now if we find all this in the Bible then did Mrs. White make it up?! No, GOd made it clear for we have not studied the Bible like we should, or could for that matter being degraded 6,000 years.

For more information read http://www.remnant-prophecy.com/SOP-Library/Health/CD.pdf (broken link) or check out Health and Hygenic Living (http://www.remnant-prophecy.com/SOP-Library/Health/Health.htm - broken link)
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,023 posts, read 14,225,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bignebula View Post
God bless you! I'm sure you're a wonderful, God loving christian.
We SDA, mean no harm. I'm sure I won't be able to convince you in our beliefs in just one post, but let me just say....
Nebula and (Su x 3)shi, I appreciate the detailed explanation. On the other hand, from the other shore, you guys can't probably imagine my hyper-annoy factor when I run into some of my best friends, who happen to be SDA's, who come simply rub their diatribe on a humble, many-a-time sin committing, girl-drooling, yet strictly sabbath-keeping (partly because mom keeps a check as much as I'm wearing clean underwear) catholic boy.

If my mom gets to read this message, she'll be pissed. Worse, my late dad would probably be pissed to the power of two.

I grew up in a traditional and staunch breed of catholicism. But I am no literary-freak who will want to grow a cypress tree in my garden, avoid figs for food and revolt with the government to rename my town as capernaum or emmaus.

People read too much into the Bible. As far as I am concerned, I believe in the trinity, that gabriel appeared before the virgin, god became man and gave his life for us and will come again, pretty much the apostles' creed.

And I honestly was never bothered about what kind of caligae Paul wore in the 47th page of Acts on his way to say, Antioch. Along the same lines, when people quote the revelation and read too much into the beasts, I can't help but think how mixed up they are and the kinds of ideas other people are running into their heads. Also, how much free time they have in their hands, rather than go get a new degree, water the lily, work out, trip to the mall, teach good manners for the kids or at worst, sit down and watch I love new york or oprah or nancy grace

Speaking from your side, Ellen White stands accused of the same anti-christ crime of the Pope. She or her followers seek/have sought to create another organized religion as opposed to the supposed anti-christian handiwork of 2000 years of polemics and apologetics?

I am sure there is another remote denomination springing out of another part of the world which seeks to discredit the rest of the denominations. The way I see it, all these denominations are nothing but copycats of the catholic church. All of them stand accused of plagiarising the teachings of the early apostles and the church fathers who served as the seed for catholicism. Now the greeks will accuse the latinists of their own plagiarism which is its own debate worth having.

But as you know, no catholic in the world ever tries to accuse other forms of the christian faith. It's always been the other way around, or at least as far as I know. I'll be surprised if you find me a Pope who calls Ellen White an evil Eve. Or call Pat Robertson a nutter, given that he is one.

So they accuse the catholic church of cronyism, sale of indulgence, organized layers of corrupt infrastructure and they break away to seek to create the exact mirror image of what they accused. Just take a look around every denomination, you find buildings, organized clergy, hierarchy, bibles, printing press and the whole nine yards in their own different flavour and stamp it as the new best form of christianity.

So, considering that the popes and the catholics are evil, SDA's are inherent to this evil. I'd be amused to know if they manna'ed directly from heaven. It was the evil Popes who spread the faith across the world with whatever allegedly corrupt means they had at their disposal, the same evil popes the puritans and the pilgrim fathers emerged from, seeking to sail across a trade route founded by an evil Italian powered by corrupt and oppressive conquistador/catholic money which will one day blossom into America, so Ellen White can sit her bum in the 19th century and throw her tantrum on the satanic roots which lie yonder from the trunk that holds one of the branches she's perched upon.

Now, back to the revelation, you guys know the circumstances that John was forced to write them, right?

Exiled by the bloodythirsty Flavian tyrants, emerging from decades of burning in the colosseum, before the beasts which tore them to death, the revelation was intended to be a wake up call to the faithful that Jesus was beyond and above Rome and any form of Rome which succeeds Rome to this day and the future.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the credibility of the revelation. But the revelation was not intended to be used for propaganda and stoke theories of doom and misery. It was meant to bolster faith in Jesus and it ends there.

Besides, who here wants to deny that when Constantine opened the floodgates of Rome, many early fathers ran riot in embracing pagan Roman lineaments as a token of gratitude plus a strategy at quickly converting the pan-pagan populace in the easiest/quickest possible way, which was not a bad idea at all in my opinion, because the message was still central to Jesus Christ.

Now I really hope the atheist buggers don't jump on here and call the whole thing farce, for atheism is a farce in itself as much as it seeks to call the farce in theism. It's all pythagorian human mental geometry, with one huge hypotenuse both the atheists and theists call God.

So, Ellen White and those like her can continue to seek to discredit the catholic church, given that we have had fake popes, anti-popes, buggered with the greek patriarchs of byzantium even when the islamo-fascists were running over Constantinople, the pornocracy popes, the non-priests who became popes, thugs who became popes like the medici, with concubines and children, cases where even grandsons became Popes, and other equally stuck-up Popes whom the liberal media sought to sanctify ONLY because they treated the jews with "love" (reminds me of mathematical axioms which go like "iff", if and only if) and those corrupt sex scandal bishops/priests too, which can have us postulate that the good popes took a predominant 1500 year vacation from the likes of Gregory in 500AD to say, Pope John Paul II of yesterday.... but the fact of the matter is that catholicism was, is and will always be impeccable as opposed to the flawed humans involved.

As simple as how frequency modulation/frequency shift keying is a perfect textbook concept, which I never got to achieve to perfection inside my electronics laboratory at college, which I am pretty sure no electronics engineer in the world ever has achieved with his own manual circuit board. And I honestly will be the "LAST" one to call the concept evil, baloney or non-existent mumbo-jumbo.

I can't help but remind myself of my father who, as I know from the day I was born, worked in the church's lay committee, in between his main profession. He knew the histories of every deacon/priest/bishop, their racial prejudices, their various concubines, instances of pederasty, inappropriation of funds, you name it..... I used to ask him why he cannot make this public and bring them to justice.

His response: "It only seeks to discredit the body of the church, the concept of Christ, that the church is the bride of christ, and these parasites are just humans as you and I"

So, if someone tells me Jesus would send me to hell/Babylon for having been born of catholic parents, I have to say they are on LSD or an equivalent of that
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:08 AM
 
302 posts, read 330,769 times
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[quote=MichelleGreenman;7738752][quote=Donna Kupp;7259259]IS ELLEN WHITE TEACHING "ANOTHER GOSPEL" WHEN SHE SAYS THAT HEALTH REFORM IS NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ELLEN WHITE ....

"The LORD has given instruction that the Gospel is to be carried forward; and the GOSPEL INCLUDES HEALTH REFORM in all its phases." CDF p.75

"God demands that the appetites be cleansed...This is a work that will have to be done before HIS PEOPLE can stand before Him a perfected people." CDF p. 36

"…one of the highest attainments in the Christian life is to control appetite, and that, without this victory, all hope of heaven is vain." James and Ellen White - Christian Temperance 206

"The meat diet is the serious question. Shall HUMAN BEINGS live on the flesh of dead animals. The answer from the light GOD HAS GIVEN ME is, No, decidedly NO. CDF, p. 388

I wanted to deal with this first. Does the Bible talk about food? Yes. Does Mrs. White teach anything different to what the Bible teaches? No.

*******************************************

Jesus ate flesh meat. Jesus was without sin --or we would not have a saviour. Jesus did not teach vegetarianism. The covenant that was ratified by the blood of Jesus Christ can never be changed
Ellen White:

Let not any of our ministers set an EVIL example in the eating of FLESH MEAT. Let them and their families live up to the light of Health Reform." CDF p.399

The LORD has given instruction that the Gospel is to be carried forward; and the GOSPEL INCLUDES HEALTH REFORM in all its phases." CDF p.75

"The light God has given on HEALTH REFORM is for our SALVATION and the salvation of the world." CDF p.461

God gave the light on HEALTH REFORM and those who reject it, REJECT GOD! Series B, p. 205

The apostle Paul:

"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL unto you than that which WE have preached unto you, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8

Read more:

]THE STRANGE DOCTRINES OF HEALTH REFORM

Last edited by Donna Kupp; 03-05-2009 at 11:16 AM.. Reason: unwanted graphics
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Old 03-05-2009, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus_Antonis View Post

People read too much into the Bible.
Really? I was thinkin people aren't readin them at all.
I think its time the world see the truth. And SDA is the only Church that is preaching the truth. I know.....strong words. But its true. All other denominations are picking the texts they want. Pastors are leading their churches away from the truth.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me any SDA belief that goes against what the Bible says.

Speaking from your side, Ellen White stands accused of the same anti-christ crime of the Pope. She or her followers seek/have sought to create another organized religion as opposed to the supposed anti-christian handiwork of 2000 years of polemics and apologetics?
I am sure there is another remote denomination springing out of another part of the world which seeks to discredit the rest of the denominations. The way I see it, all these denominations are nothing but copycats of the catholic church. All of them stand accused of plagiarising the teachings of the early apostles and the church fathers who served as the seed for catholicism.


Thats pure hogwash. It clear you don't know what your saying. Protestant churches were, ofcourse, called protestant, because they protested against the 'pagan' filled catholic church. Quite the opposite of what you think. What's a shame, is that, there's only one Church that is truly protestant 'now'...SDA. All the others are taking on the same traditions that the catholics have. And they're also making 'deadly' changes in their way of worship, to attract more people.
SDA beliefs are Gods beliefs whether people like them or not. We havn't changed our beliefs one bit through the Churches history. And when it was founded it was to reveal the 'truth' to the world. It's a shame most of the world is turning their heads to this 'valuable truth'.
Jesus kept the Sabbath. He is Lord of the Sabbath. Mans beliefs started a tradition. The catholic admits they changed the Sabbath from the 7th to the 1st day, and that it was the 'mark of her authority' and that there is NO scriptural authority for the change.
[Doctrinal Catechism, pg.174]
Excuse me...but that does NOT sound good! Sounds like the Beast in Revelation to me. And about 20 other descriptions match them and the pope clearly to the Harlot church and antichrist. The Bible says, 'they think to change times and laws'. Dan 7:25. (Ofcourse they changed the commandments too, dealing with idolatry)
And Gods Word speaks of the Saints, 'here is the perseverance of the Saints, those that keep the commandments of God'. Rev. 14:12

So it comes down to the law. And what Church is keeping the whole law? Remember, you break one, you break all!
But, wait a minute, you say...the law doesn't save us....we're saved by Grace through faith.....and guess what.....faith without works is dead.
But God says, 'if you love me, you'll keep my commandments' John 14:15

How much clearer can it get?!!!!!!!

But as you know, no catholic in the world ever tries to accuse other forms of the christian faith.
No, ofcourse not.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the credibility of the revelation. But the revelation was not intended to be used for propaganda and stoke theories of doom and misery. It was meant to bolster faith in Jesus and it ends there.

Dont forget, 'faith without works is dead' James 2:20
Revelation is for the end-time people. Gods Word is clear that the Saints keep Gods Commandments. According to Revelation, this is the deciding factor on whether you're saved or not. It's not the law that saves you, it's the fact that 'you love HIM, so you keep the Law of God' -not the traditions of man

People, this is happening whether you like it or not. This is what Gods Word is telling us. Not liking it, or not wanting to accept it, will not save you. You go with the world ways or Gods ways.
Which is it?

So, if someone tells me Jesus would send me to hell/Babylon for having been born of catholic parents, I have to say they are on LSD.

Your not bound for hell if you're born a catholic. Catholics will be in Heaven. However, in the end-times when the 'truth' is clear to you and others.... If you resist it, you will receive 'the mark of the beast'.
All this is Biblical.
You can make up whatever excuses you want to make, its not gonna save you.
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Old 03-05-2009, 10:38 PM
 
Location: In Sticky San Antonio TX
1,116 posts, read 1,402,102 times
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Let's not judge all SDA's by EGW. Some just as soon not talk about her.

It's like referring to all Roman Catholics by the priest pedophiles.

Or all Muslims by those who flew into the WTC.

Generalizations really stink. (<---- a good generalization if I ever read one)
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
4,852 posts, read 5,287,769 times
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I have debated the Krupps many times. Their website seemed to be very similar to SDA theology in many facets, but Harold denied this when I associated him with formal Adventism.

Now this post by Donna about Ellen White. I had never heard the name before and am thankful for Sushi's synopsis to get me up to speed.

So, trying to put the Krupps and their skewed theology in a context, I see them as a reformed version of SDA theology. Any thoughts? Why the interest in Ellen White if not? Donna, are you and Harold exiled from the SDA?
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