U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Easter!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,163,114 times
Reputation: 1785

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
If He wrote His laws in our hearts? but what about the sins that are not literally in the bible. Wouldn't the Holy Spirit convict you? If you go against the Holy Spirit then aren't you sinning so really it is not left to the individual but the Holy Spirit to know if it is a sin or not?
Fundie you are missing most of what I am posting on this subject. The focus should not be on yours or anyone else's sin.

You are IMO seeking perfection in your own strength and you are doomed to fail as that is measured by some man-made doctrine/opinion.

I tend to look at this outside the box. You are asking if the HS will not convict you of an unknown sin. If the law is written on our hearts, not the 10 - the two, then doing good to your fellow man in spite of their sexual preferences or lifestyles, will far more demonstrate what is in you - the heart law - than trying to find the perfect "thou shalt not" list.

Now to assume a non believer does not have this heart law is ludicrous.

In another thread I linked to a blog I wrote which explains this in more detail with more examples and propositions.

As a rule of thumb, I have found those that focus on certain sins tend to project their own weaknesses on others and that is precisely what bondage does (another name for religion)

Jesus was the great Liberator, His judgments were always directed at the religious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:14 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
It is not beside the point if you extend that judging to those who are NOT your children.
Then should we free all the prisons as well?

Quote:
And you don't seem to get the meaning of grace that stems from the agape LOVE . . . you cannot commit sin in that state of mind, period!
Then since we all sin the we can't be showing agape love?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,909,938 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not if we are acting out of agape love . . . if we are acting out of any other mindset . . . we may be . . . like judging or condemning others whose "spiritual state" we cannot possibly know for certain from their external acts.
I can understand your concern, but can we trully understand what agape love is if we reject Gods truth in favor of the worlds lies. Can we act in agape love if we do not even understand what it is? I can understand that we should not judge or condemn, but most of the time thse who shout that others are judging or condemning are the very ones who are rejecting Gods truth for the lies of the world even if they do not realize it. This is what I meant by we are all at different levels of our spiritual walk and often we think we are feasting on meat when we cannot even handle the milk. You are right we cannot tell by their external acts but we can get a good idea where they are by their external acts as well as what they claim to believe. We know that there are tare sewn amongst the wheat in order to hault the growth of the true believers by offering them seemingly more attractive interpritations while rejecting portions of the truth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:19 PM
 
37,645 posts, read 25,337,503 times
Reputation: 5864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Then should we free all the prisons as well?
Render unto Caesar . . . You simply cannot separate spiritual issues from carnal . . . can you?
Quote:
Then since we all sin the we can't be showing agape love?
When we sin . . . it is because AT THAT TIME our mind is not in that state of mind and is not acting out of that LOVE. Repentance is a return to that mental state (memory) and a CHANGE of our consciousness about it through remorse . . . placing us back in the grace of agape LOVE.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 02-02-2009 at 02:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:23 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,577,248 times
Reputation: 116
[quote=RobinD69;7287300]You are completely misunderstanding me. I am not saying you have to follow the letter of the law but that you will desire to follow the letter of the law if you trully love the Lord. I am speaking of the fruit of the spirit and anything else is hatred towards those you claim to love. How can you understand the true concept of agape love if your perception is clouded by the flesh? When we justify a sin and demand we be accepted no matter what we do then were are actually exibiting hatred for the Lord and defying the definition of love.


Well said Robin. The agape love of God has nothing to do with affection. It is amazing that so many miss what is so plainly stated in the Scriptures:

For THIS is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments are not grievous. (1 John 5:3)

"IF a man love me, he will keep my words: (John 14:23)

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that
loveth me: " (John 14:21)


The great deception is to believe that one can love God even if he is breaking God's commandments.


HK
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:28 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Fundie you are missing most of what I am posting on this subject. The focus should not be on yours or anyone else's sin.

You are IMO seeking perfection in your own strength and you are doomed to fail as that is measured by some man-made doctrine/opinion.
I am not seeking perfection in my own strength. You call it a man made doctrine, Did not Jesus tell the rich young ruler what is good by giving him the commandments?

Quote:
I tend to look at this outside the box. You are asking if the HS will not convict you of an unknown sin. If the law is written on our hearts, not the 10 - the two, then doing good to your fellow man in spite of their sexual preferences or lifestyles, will far more demonstrate what is in you - the heart law - than trying to find the perfect "thou shalt not" list.Now to assume a non believer does not have this heart law is ludicrous.
I am looking at this out of the box as well, but that is fruits of the spirit which is hardly out of the box.

Quote:
In another thread I linked to a blog I wrote which explains this in more detail with more examples and propositions.

As a rule of thumb, I have found those that focus on certain sins tend to project their own weaknesses on others and that is precisely what bondage does (another name for religion)
I don't see how one focuses on certain sins when they know all sin is bad, since we all fall short then we are all weak in God, was not that the objective of the Law- to project the sinner as exceedingly sinful? which the Apostle Paul wrote.

Quote:
Jesus was the great Liberator, His judgments were always directed at the religious.
Jesus came to liberate us from religious false doctrine. The Pharisees had it but preached in the way they wanted for their own wants and needs not God's. His judgments were toward the people who's hearts were closed to the truth whether they were Pharisee or a beggar

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-02-2009 at 01:52 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,909,938 times
Reputation: 624
We seem to have two opposing sides trying to claim the same outcome. On one side we have those who want to claim one part of Pauls verse "All things are lawful for me" but they reject the second half which is the wall that divides "Not all things are permissable/profitable". It goes on to relate again that "All things are lawful to me, but I will be mastered by none". This is total submittion to God and prepares us for meat when we are still on milk. Many believe they are further enlightened than others and forget that the two great commandment incompass all the others and that the second is impossible without the first and the first is not fulfilled if we reject Gods truth and do not attempt to adhere to the guidance of the spirit. Very often we quench the spirit by claiming that we are not under the law and actually misunderstanding this statement. This is true, we are not under the law or even subject to the law, but we will have the desire to keep the law, even thought we are incapable, and strive to emulate Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,864,546 times
Reputation: 290
I know that once I began to live each and every day first and foremost by the Greatest Commandment and the second, the Lord has blessed me beyond compare...the Holy Spirit has been incredibly active in my life for the Lord.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:36 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,470,092 times
Reputation: 746
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Render unto Caesar . . . You simply cannot separate spiritual issues from carnal . . . can you?
God will judge us on the way we judged others. Was it a righteous judgment out of love for our brother or a self righteous, hypocritical love?
Quote:
When we sin . . . it is because AT THAT TIME our mind is not in that state of mind and is not acting out of that LOVE. Repentance is a return to that mental state (memory) and CHANGE our consciousness about it through remorse . . . placing us back in the grace of agape LOVE.
but doesn't the filling of the Holy Spirit give you that type of love therefore if you don't then the Holy Spirit must have left which it vowed never to do?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:38 PM
 
37,645 posts, read 25,337,503 times
Reputation: 5864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Well said Robin. The agape love of God has nothing to do with affection. It is amazing that so many miss what is so plainly stated in the Scriptures:

For THIS is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments are not grievous. (1 John 5:3)

"IF a man love me, he will keep my words: (John 14:23)

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that
loveth me: " (John 14:21)


The great deception is to believe that one can love God even if he is breaking God's commandments. HK
Yeah, yeah . . . literally OBEY for the sake of OBEYING . . . right. God would not have such a puerile purpose for commanding us. You blaspheme the majesty of God by suggesting such a pointless purpose. There is an extremely important reason for the commandments that have nothing to do with mere OBEDIENCE! The "spirit" of the laws is to foster agape love for one another through the grace of God from Jesus' agape love for us. That is WHY Jesus said the two most important commandments were Love of God and each other. They cover the purpose of ALL the others. If you can hold Jesus and God in your "heart" when you act . . . it cannot ever be a sin. If you must shove them aside to act . . . you are sinning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top