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Old 02-02-2009, 02:01 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,165,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
The great deception is to believe that one can love God even if he is breaking God's commandments
The great deception is to believe that God cannot love us even if he is breaking God's commandments. FIXED
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,912,198 times
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Thank you Harold, Fundy, and StirringWaters, I believe you all see what I am trying to present. As for the others, I also thank you for your adherance seeking the truth even if we do not completely agree there is portions we do agree on. For all I thank you for us being able to discuss without killing one another.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Yeah, yeah . . . literally OBEY for the sake of OBEYING . . . right. God would not have such a puerile purpose for commanding us. You blaspheme the majesty of God by suggesting such a pointless purpose. There is an extremely important reason for the commandments that have nothing to do with mere OBEDIENCE! The "spirit" of the laws is to foster agape love for one another through the grace of God from Jesus' agape love for us. That is WHY Jesus said the two most important commandments were Love of God and each other. They cover the purpose of ALL the others. If you can hold Jesus and God in your "heart" when you act . . . it cannot ever be a sin. If you must shove them aside to act . . . you are sinning.
There is a big difference between trying to do Gods will under your own power and doing Gods will in obedeince. The Holy Spirit convicts us on a basis concerning our level of our walk with the Lord. If we have a pet sin that causes us to stumble, we will not understand the spirit and will actually reject some of what the Spirit is telling us. By showing our obedience we are not adhering to the law by our own will, we are adhering to the law by the guidance of the spirit. The more we are willing to obey the more open we are to gods true love, but the more we try to claim that love without obedience the strong the wall of seperation becomes and we become carnal Christians. God has written His word on our hearts but we cannot understand that word or portions of it because we are still in the world and in some cases of the world for selfish reasons, I for one am willing to admit I fall short and I seek to be further chastised and brough closer to the truth.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,165,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am not seeking perfection in my own strength. You call it a man made doctrine, Did not Jesus tell the rich young ruler what is good by giving him the commandments?
Uhm no. The ruler said he had done all these things since his youth. He was told then to sell everything and take up his cross and follow Him.

The object lesson here is not selling all you owe but showing the futility of trying to conform to the man-made doctrines. If taking up the cross were to imply that it was a difficult thing to do, why then would He say take my yoke upon you...my burden is light.

Quote:
Jesus came to liberate us from religious false doctrine. The Pharisees had it but preached in the way they wanted for their own wants and needs not God's. His judgments were toward the people who's hearts were closed to the truth whether they were Pharisee or a beggar
I will be interested to see where exactly He told off a beggar seeing as Jesus actually hung out with the dregs of society.

The blue bit is correct. Sadly what you cannot see is with you, he obviously failed as it is still false doctrine(s) you still cling to.

The problem is when you want to try glue the old covenant with the new. Old wine in new wine skins, new cloth on old garment.

When Jesus said "I am the WAY.." try see that as the pathWAY or the doorWAY. Jesus is NOT the destination. Sadly the trinity doctrine has blurred this "truth."

My WAYS are NOT your ways... My Thoughts are not your thoughts...

Think about it.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,865,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Thank you Harold, Fundy, and StirringWaters, I believe you all see what I am trying to present. As for the others, I also thank you for your adherance seeking the truth even if we do not completely agree there is portions we do agree on. For all I thank you for us being able to discuss without killing one another.




There is a big difference between trying to do Gods will under your own power and doing Gods will in obedeince. The Holy Spirit convicts us on a basis concerning our level of our walk with the Lord. If we have a pet sin that causes us to stumble, we will not understand the spirit and will actually reject some of what the Spirit is telling us. By showing our obedience we are not adhering to the law by our own will, we are adhering to the law by the guidance of the spirit. The more we are willing to obey the more open we are to gods true love, but the more we try to claim that love without obedience the strong the wall of seperation becomes and we become carnal Christians. God has written His word on our hearts but we cannot understand that word or portions of it because we are still in the world and in some cases of the world for selfish reasons, I for one am willing to admit I fall short and I seek to be further chastised and brough closer to the truth.
Hmm. I'm not sure I gave you the right impression by what I posted.

Quote:
I know that once I began to live each and every day first and foremost by the Greatest Commandment and the second, the Lord has blessed me beyond compare...the Holy Spirit has been incredibly active in my life for the Lord.
The Holy Spirit has always been with me. But once I gave up trying to live by others' standards and leaned on the Lord and began daily living the Greatest Commandment and the second, the Holy Spirit became more active in my life. When I am solely focused on loving the Lord my God with all my heart and all my soul and all my mind and loving my neighbors as myself, He can use me so much more! He opens my eyes and I see! He opens my ears, and I hear! Everything is secondary to loving the Lord my God...and since it is the Greatest Commandment, it's as it should be.

There is a clear and distinct difference in my life from the point of my salvation until I daily began to live by the Greatest Commandment and second...making them first and foremost in my mind each and every day.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,165,358 times
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2Co 3:13 And we are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of the thing being done away.
2Co 3:14 (But their thoughts were blinded; for until the present the same veil remains on the reading of the old covenant, not taken away.) But this veil has been done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15 But until this day, when Moses is read, the veil is on their heart.
2Co 3:16 But whenever it turns to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17 And the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,586,534 times
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I come by the Blood, I come by the Cross
Where your mercy flowed through hands pierced for me
For I dare not stand on my righteousness
My only hope rests on what Christ has done...

...I come by the Blood.

To sum it up, can we boast on any complying? Only the work Heís done in us is righteous, even if we follow on our own doing (for itís not the doing He concerns Himself with, but rather the reliance we have on Him).
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:54 PM
 
37,660 posts, read 25,360,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
We seem to have two opposing sides trying to claim the same outcome. On one side we have those who want to claim one part of Pauls verse "All things are lawful for me" but they reject the second half which is the wall that divides "Not all things are permissable/profitable".
The second has nothing to do with "permission" except to the immature (OBEYERS). "Profitable" means useful. It is "not all things EDIFY" . . . i.e inform and develop the spirit!
Quote:
It goes on to relate again that "All things are lawful to me, but I will be mastered by none". This is total submittion to God and prepares us for meat when we are still on milk.
Sorry . . . you can't twist it to your OBEYING theme . . . it is total submission of our desires to our own will and agape love.
Quote:
Many believe they are further enlightened than others and forget that the two great commandment incompass all the others and that the second is impossible without the first and the first is not fulfilled if we reject Gods truth and do not attempt to adhere to the guidance of the spirit.
The first is impossible without the second, Robin . . . did you forget the order of the test "What you do to these the least . . ."
Quote:
Very often we quench the spirit by claiming that we are not under the law and actually misunderstanding this statement. This is true, we are not under the law or even subject to the law, but we will have the desire to keep the law, even thought we are incapable, and strive to emulate Christ.
It is definitely misunderstood . . . as revealed in this very thread. We have no desire to keep the law . . . we have no need of laws . . . since the holy spirit is within us and convicts our internal spiritual state whenever we reject him and adopt a sinful state of mind. It is WHY we do what we do that determines whether or not we sin.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:55 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,475,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Uhm no. The ruler said he had done all these things since his youth. He was told then to sell everything and take up his cross and follow Him.

The object lesson here is not selling all you owe but showing the futility of trying to conform to the man-made doctrines. If taking up the cross were to imply that it was a difficult thing to do, why then would He say take my yoke upon you...my burden is light.
18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

That is idolatry, another commandment I might add- Not putting God first. Jesus is very clear with the Law with the rich young ruler that he put his money before his God. The man is clearly lying because no one can keep God's standard of righteousness and Jesus made him understand by showing Him he could lie in words but you can't lie in your actions. He was not willing to give up his god of money and pickup his cross.

Quote:
I will be interested to see where exactly He told off a beggar seeing as Jesus actually hung out with the dregs of society.
and the dregs of societies hearts were open to the truth just like the highly religious Pharisee Nicodemus who sought after Jesus. He also wanted the truth and Jesus gave it to him, "you must be born again"
Quote:
The blue bit is correct. Sadly what you cannot see is with you, he obviously failed as it is still false doctrine(s) you still cling to.
Sorry but the doctrines make perfect sense after a lot of prayer to me
Quote:
The problem is when you want to try glue the old covenant with the new. Old wine in new wine skins, new cloth on old garment.
Jesus brought it in the New Testament, incidentally Sabbath didn't make it is the NT
Quote:
When Jesus said "I am the WAY.." try see that as the pathWAY or the doorWAY. Jesus is NOT the destination. Sadly the trinity doctrine has blurred this "truth."
Actually no one believes Jesus is the destination. He is the ONLY pathway, it's very clear from that verse.
Quote:
My WAYS are NOT your ways... My Thoughts are not your thoughts...

Think about it.
Well from using that logic, you are wrong as well?

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-02-2009 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:13 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,165,358 times
Reputation: 1785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Actually no one believes Jesus is the destination. He is the ONLY pathway, it's very clear from that verse.
Well from using that logic, you are wrong as well?
And out we come with the "beam in teh I" ministry

As I cite scripture from memory and you very little, possibly you take heed in recognizing that I require no teaching from you.

I have tried to be polite and share from the spirit yet you are but your old judgmental self. Obviously you are not ready to receive what I share as your mind is closed.

I will allow you the last say as you do appear to be vindicated when you do so.

Ciao
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,912,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StirringWaters View Post
Hmm. I'm not sure I gave you the right impression by what I posted.



The Holy Spirit has always been with me. But once I gave up trying to live by others' standards and leaned on the Lord and began daily living the Greatest Commandment and the second, the Holy Spirit became more active in my life. When I am solely focused on loving the Lord my God with all my heart and all my soul and all my mind and loving my neighbors as myself, He can use me so much more! He opens my eyes and I see! He opens my ears, and I hear! Everything is secondary to loving the Lord my God...and since it is the Greatest Commandment, it's as it should be.

There is a clear and distinct difference in my life from the point of my salvation until I daily began to live by the Greatest Commandment and second...making them first and foremost in my mind each and every day.
Actually I think we are closer to a mutual understanding than either of us may realize. I am not saying that we do the will of God to show ourselves worthy but that we do the will of God because it is an outward expression that the Holy Spirit is working thru us that we have submitted ourselve to His will and are obedient. this is a fine line that can lead to much misunderstanding. Someone expressed that judging someone for a particular lifestyle does not mean that person isnt doing the will of God or isnt being loved by Gods. I would argue with the doing the will of God because it is not His will that we sin, but everyone is loved by God. The question is, is everyone loving God frist or are we loving the world and expecting God to bless our shortcomings. This is the sticking point, yes we can be caught up in sin and God still love us, but what belssings are we missing out on by serving sin rather than God? This is what I see is meant by "All things are lawful to me, but not all things are profitable" What kind of witness do we present to the world if we justify our sins, what need do we have of Christ if we justify our sins. Notice it is WE who justify our sin while Christ is telling us to go and sin no more. How can we emulate Christ if we are being mastered by sin "All things are lawful to me, but I will be mastered by none". Christ is our master and if we remain in our sins we are being mastered by them. Dont get me wrong we are all a work in progress, but if our progress is haulted by sin then the work is for nothing.

Not all of this was directed at you StirringWaters, I just felt an overwelming of the spirit and wanted to share a little extra. I really like your statement of loving God first and then loving neighbor and then the blessings start flowing in, you are correct and many of us may not see this whole picture do to our limited commitment to the Lord because of a few strongholds.
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