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Very interesting. Something I need to study further!
Start with this, if you will:
"Now when the unclean spirit goes out of a man
(A once repentant man),
it passes through waterless places seeking rest, and does not find it.
(References 2nd Peter 2:17, and Jude 1:12)
"Then it says, 'I will return to my house from which I came'; and when it comes, it finds {it} unoccupied, swept, and put in order.
(Man trying to overcome by themselves, with a hardened heart, and not God doing the transforming, in other words, devoid of the Spirit. Only through Christ can we overcome the world, since He overcame it first!)
"Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation."
This IMO is eith a self righteous person, who by claiming the Blood of the Cross, has instead spit on it or a luke warm believer, who knows that the love of the world is evil, but chooses to instead claim that no matter what, they cannot overcome it, with or without Help.
Either way, it is not the WAY. This lesson is so profound, and remarkable, especially when looking at it in the original Greek Language.
We cannot do anything on our own. Only God can transform a heart completely. Only Jesus can cause the growth needed for this transformation. But can we become that sinless overcoming saint of the Most High? Yes, and there have been plenty of examples. A saint is never a sinner, for that is a contradiction in terms.
But then the question comes up that "there is only ONE Jesus", and ONLY He was sinless. This also is true. But, when receive the forgiveness of our sins, we are at that MOMENT, clean. Sinless! That is the power of the Blood of Jesus.
But most of us fall again, repent, and get back up. This process is continued, until we are transformed, if the repentance is sincere. Really, how many times can a person commit the SAME SINS, and remain repentant? Does not the very idea of repentance mean to turn away from that sin? That is our growth. We continue until we are transformed.
I dunno, man.. I think you're looking for too much... or underestimating the grace and power of God available RIGHT NOW to all of us! Are we not transformed when we become a child of God thru repentance? I believe we are.. and at that point we are exactly where God wants us. But He will want us to move on.. and as we follow Him, we ARE sinless in His eyes. But until we are out of this body of clay, and are transformed in a new body in heaven, it will be a battle with sin. We will fail.
Quote:
I also believe that once a person is Born Again, they won't SEE death. They are transfigured straight into His Presence.
John 8:51 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. 52 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. 53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?
I believe Jesus was talking about spiritual death.. not physical. The Jews likewise thought He meant physical death.. but these verses show that Jesus had something else in mind.
The gospel is simple.. repent and believe. All can become born again.
(Matthew 5:29)"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Does that sound like you can sin and go to Heaven? Absolutely not. Jesus stressed the importance of not sinning, for it would be better to cut off a limb than to sin.
(Matthew 5:29)"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
Does that sound like you can sin and go to Heaven? Absolutely not. Jesus stressed the importance of not sinning, for it would be better to cut off a limb than to sin.
So I take it your answer is #2.
Heaven is going to be an empty place if all it takes is for someone to sin once and not make it to heaven.
Heaven is going to be an empty place if all it takes is for someone to sin once and not make it to heaven.
You are putting words in my mouth.
The standard to be born-again is holiness. There is no sin in holiness, and we must live accordingly. To enter Heaven, one's soul must be pure and clean at the moment of their last breath, which means without a seed of willful sin.
Now, can someone who is really born-again commit willful sin and get back to God? Yes, with godly sorrow. But this sin and repent, sin and repent cycle is unacceptable to God. Once you let this scripture sink into your heart, then you will be on the right track.
(Philippians 2:12)"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
We must get enough salvation to stop all willful sinning. This takes prayer, fasting and living in the Word.
We must get enough salvation to stop all willful sinning. This takes prayer, fasting and living in the Word.
Or rather.. we must avail ourself of the grace that God gives in abundance to each one who becomes His child. "Salvation" is always enough. We can't get "more" or "less" salvation...
I agree, tho, that our Christian walk is not just a piece of cake. We must pray, deny the flesh, and live in the Word to maintain abundant grace in our life.
to honor the OP, I will simply say this. I once met married couple in sunday school who said they never had a fight or argument.
I just said, " Uh Huh?"
The funny about lies and hypocrisy is that it sounds believeable but in relaity we know how it is. If you're married you know how it is. If you're saved and are under grace, you know how it is. The Holy Spirit indwelling has a convicting power that bears the truth in everyhting. if we sin, we hear about it from God through the spirit.
to hang this on the pretzel logic some are drawing from one verse of one book is using the word to not enlighten but to oppress.
Jesus came to save sinners; I think we'd all agree.
But Jesus issued a stern rebuke to a righteous man in the parable with the tax collector. the tax collector went up justified because the pharisee was so deluded in his own perfection.
Jesus condemned the pharisees over and over again because they deceived themselves. anyone who thinks they have complied fully with some verse out of 1 John is a complete liar, fool, and hypocrit.
Since this has been discussed a lot recently, I would love for everyone to just say which they agree with. I'm hoping Donna Kupp and Harold Kupp will participate so everyone can understand their beliefs, because I think there is a lot of confusion.
1. A TRUE CHRISTIAN can sin, but be sorry for that sin, and repent and confess their sin to God and be forgiven.
2. A TRUE CHRISTIAN cannot/will not/does not sin, period. If one does, they are a phony Christian.
Pretty simple. I'm not asking for scripture to back up your belief, just post which one is your belief. Thank you!
A true Christian (one who is born of God) does not willfully rebel against God and disobey God's commandments by committing sin.
Why is that hard to understand for some? John told us how to test ourselves....
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;
1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
The standard to be born-again is holiness. There is no sin in holiness, and we must live accordingly. To enter Heaven, one's soul must be pure and clean at the moment of their last breath, which means without a seed of willful sin.
Now, can someone who is really born-again commit willful sin and get back to God? Yes, with godly sorrow. But this sin and repent, sin and repent cycle is unacceptable to God. Once you let this scripture sink into your heart, then you will be on the right track.
(Philippians 2:12)"...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
We must get enough salvation to stop all willful sinning. This takes prayer, fasting and living in the Word.
I'm sorry, didn't mean to. I asked for everyone to answer which they believed in, and some people are having a hard time answering the question, and I understand that. Your first post sounded like your answer was #2, now this post sounds like #1. I thought it was a simple question I was asking, but now I realize it's not for some.
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