Let's just lay it all out. Can a Christian sin? (Gospel, hell)

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn

Do you believe that while on this earth, in our bodies, we can become sinless? Or do you believe that we actually won't be born again until after the resurrection?

This is actually great questions.

Do you believe that while on this earth, in our bodies, we can become sinless?

We cannot do anything on our own. Only God can transform a heart completely. Only Jesus can cause the growth needed for this transformation. But can we become that sinless overcoming saint of the Most High? Yes, and there have been plenty of examples. A saint is never a sinner, for that is a contradiction in terms.

But then the question comes up that "there is only ONE Jesus", and ONLY He was sinless. This also is true. But, when receive the forgiveness of our sins, we are at that MOMENT, clean. Sinless! That is the power of the Blood of Jesus.

But most of us fall again, repent, and get back up. This process is continued, until we are transformed, if the repentance is sincere. Really, how many times can a person commit the SAME SINS, and remain repentant? Does not the very idea of repentance mean to turn away from that sin? That is our growth. We continue until we are transformed.

Or do you believe that we actually won't be born again until after the resurrection?

I believe most won't, no. The overcomer, in this life, actually judges those who are sinful. They sit on the throne, with Jesus. I know this might go against most theologies, but I believe there are 2 judgements. Those who follow God Almighty, and then those who don't. Those who overcome, are ressurected into the 1000 years of millenial reign of Jesus. Those who don't, afterwords.

I also believe that once a person is Born Again, they won't SEE death. They are transfigured straight into His Presence.

Sorry for going off topic.

[RobinD69]

The lord of lies wants this to be as confusing as he can make it so he will use the scriptures to convince people they are not of God. Even the most devout has doubts, but it all goes back to a phrase many here hate "once saved always saved". The world is full of carnal Christians, we are all carnal Christians at one time or another. We lose our fucus on the Lord, even for a second and we become carnal for that second. We are works in progress and we will make mistakes because even though we are new creatures in Christ, we tend to give into the old self which is already dead but haunts us. Many well intended people believe they can remain in the carnal state and be perfected, but little do they know they make Christ a liar and His sacrifice for nothing when they ignore Him like this and keep company with their dead selves.

Before I was born again, I was evil, yes I could fake being good, but I was evil. I have shared portions of my testimony before, but to be truthful and blunt about it, I was evil. Once I was born again, that evil wanted to keep hold on me and tried to justify my staying the same as I was before becoming a new creation. I searched the scriptures for anything that could justify me staying evil and still going to heaven. There is nothing in there, either you focus on Christ in everything you do or you sin. His grace is sufficient for us all, but we must commit to Him and fight our own evil. This is staying the course, constantly seeking Christ even when we fall short.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by RobinD69

The lord of lies wants this to be as confusing as he can make it so he will use the scriptures to convince people they are not of God. Even the most devout has doubts, but it all goes back to a phrase many here hate "once saved always saved". The world is full of carnal Christians, we are all carnal Christians at one time or another. We lose our fucus on the Lord, even for a second and we become carnal for that second. We are works in progress and we will make mistakes because even though we are new creatures in Christ, we tend to give into the old self which is already dead but haunts us. Many well intended people believe they can remain in the carnal state and be perfected, but little do they know they make Christ a liar and His sacrifice for nothing when they ignore Him like this and keep company with their dead selves.

Before I was born again, I was evil, yes I could fake being good, but I was evil. I have shared portions of my testimony before, but to be truthful and blunt about it, I was evil. Once I was born again, that evil wanted to keep hold on me and tried to justify my staying the same as I was before becoming a new creation. I searched the scriptures for anything that could justify me staying evil and still going to heaven. There is nothing in there, either you focus on Christ in everything you do or you sin. His grace is sufficient for us all, but we must commit to Him and fight our own evil. This is staying the course, constantly seeking Christ even when we fall short.

Amen!

[HotinAZ]

Cringing not to quote some scripture here....

[cg81]

Originally Posted by BudinAk

#1

The idea that "true Christians" don't sin has been proven countless times to not be true. We are not instantly perfect, living a totally sinless life, the second we become born again. We still have the carnal mind and flesh to battle with...which by their very nature want to sin.

Good post... I agree. We hear people say "when you are a Christian you do not sin".. to which I say "Where's the proof? Who's a Christian?"

I know that I sin.. but I also know that God reminds me of it, and I need to come to Him again and again. I also know that there have been times where He's asked me to look deeper at a certain area in my life.. an area where I've fallen numerous times, and He says.. "This needs to quit. My grace has kept you this far, but I'm asking you to look at this area more closely. You can't just go on like you have been going." And He gives grace for this. This is part of the walk as we mature.

We will never be "sin-free" in this life, for we are made out of the dust of the earth, and our natural bodies will never be converted. No matter how righteous we are, God can only look at our filthy rags because of His covering of grace, and when this grace is covering us we have no sin imputed unto us.

[BST]

Option #1.

I am saved by grace. It is God's gift to me, a sinner. No amount of my good works will ever earn a spot among the elect. I don't do good works to secure my salvation - it is my gratitude for the security of my salvation that leads me to do good works. Jesus is my King. Why would I ever want to be willfully disobedient to Him? And yet, due to human weakness, I fail Him daily. In that case, go back to my first statement.

[twin.spin]

Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn

Do you believe that while on this earth, in our bodies, we can become sinless? Or do you believe that we actually won't be born again until after the resurrection?

I would vote #1 .......
then a #2 vote with the understanding of what Jesus has done for us; that he took on our sin and in exchange we now have Jesus' perfection, (and the key word is now not after the ressurection). God views us as sinless by grace through Jesus.

Thus the meaning "flesh gives birth to flesh, spirit gives birth to spirit". Have anyone wonder what Jesus meant when he said:

Luke 15:7
I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent

From Gods view, those who are covered by Jesus are now sinless, though we sin much and confess it.
Why?

John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed!

[Whyte Byrd]

Christians sin as much as anyone. You'd have to be deaf and blind or live in a cave to never have heard the saying, "Christians are not perfect, just forgiven".

That doesn't mean you can intentionally go out and sin, thinking you can always repent later but it happens, I'm sure. God knows our heart. There's nothing you can hide from him.

[mzjamiedawn]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

This is actually great questions.



We cannot do anything on our own. Only God can transform a heart completely. Only Jesus can cause the growth needed for this transformation. But can we become that sinless overcoming saint of the Most High? Yes, and there have been plenty of examples. A saint is never a sinner, for that is a contradiction in terms.

But then the question comes up that "there is only ONE Jesus", and ONLY He was sinless. This also is true. But, when receive the forgiveness of our sins, we are at that MOMENT, clean. Sinless! That is the power of the Blood of Jesus.

But most of us fall again, repent, and get back up. This process is continued, until we are transformed, if the repentance is sincere. Really, how many times can a person commit the SAME SINS, and remain repentant? Does not the very idea of repentance mean to turn away from that sin? That is our growth. We continue until we are transformed.



I believe most won't, no. The overcomer, in this life, actually judges those who are sinful. They sit on the throne, with Jesus. I know this might go against most theologies, but I believe there are 2 judgements. Those who follow God Almighty, and then those who don't. Those who overcome, are ressurected into the 1000 years of millenial reign of Jesus. Those who don't, afterwords.

I also believe that once a person is Born Again, they won't SEE death. They are transfigured straight into His Presence.

Sorry for going off topic.

Very interesting. Something I need to study further!

[mzjamiedawn]

Originally Posted by BudinAk

#1

The idea that "true Christians" don't sin has been proven countless times to not be true. We are not instantly perfect, living a totally sinless life, the second we become born again. We still have the carnal mind and flesh to battle with...which by their very nature want to sin.
The words of the Apostle Paul:

(Romans 7)

15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


Evidently the new man (inner spirit) that is born-again doesn't sin, but the old carnal nature, and the flesh, sure does.

Was the Apostle Paul "another phoney Christian"?

The entire chapter of Rom 7 is a good read on this topic.
We are to put off, leave behind, bury...the old sinful nature as we mature. Becoming sinless is a learning and maturing process. It is good that we all are having this debate...good to understand and learn about this aspect of being Christian.

Bud

Thanks Bud! I agree, this is a debate that maybe a lot of us needed in order to understand some things. I know I'm learning a lot!