Child of God or child of the devil? (Gospel, messages, Sodom)

[Harold Kupp]

Children of the Devil -or not?

The apostle John was taught by Jesus. According to the apostle There are only TWO types of people in this world – Children of God and Children of the Devil.

The Children of God do *not* commit sin.
"Whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin: 1JO 3:9

The Children of Satan continue to commit sin.
"He that committeth sin is of the Devil" 1JO 3:8

There is no third type - we are either the offspring of God or the brood of Satan. John's purpose was to provide
a fool-proof method of testing by which we can know
whose child we are.

If we are a child of God we cease to commit sin. If we
are a child of Satan we continue to commit sin.

If both types commit sin then it would be impossible to distinguish them. If (as some say) the Child of Satan commits sin and the Child of God commits sin "occasionally" - John's analysis is absurd.

John repeated the contrasting relationship...
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God..." 1JO 3:10

The children of God continue to do righteousness and the
whelps of Satan continue to "doeth not righteousness".

Again if the offspring of Satan 'doeth not righteousness" and the children of God also "doeth not righteousness" - then John is spewing nonsense.

Now lets think for a moment, if someone is a child of Satan, who willfully commits sin from time to time but thinks he is a child of God - he is going to say that both the children of God and the children of Satan commit sin.

Why do they do it? Because they commit sin "occasionally"... It is no secret; they freely admit they have not ceased to commit sin.

Jesus anticipated that lie...
"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." JO 8:34

Many Christians think they are the children of God despite
the fact that they continue to commit sin. Paul - like Jesus -
renounced that heresy...

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:16

Those who commit sin are the servants of sin. Those who
do not commit sin are the servants of Jesus. There is no
third type of God's children who commit sin "occasionally.

Over and over, the teachers sent by God poured this truth
into all who were seekers - children of God OR children of Satan. Servants of God or servants of Satan. Two types - period.

"For when ye were the SERVANTS OF SIN, ye were free from righteousness.... But now being made free from sin, and become SERVANTS TO GOD, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Romans 6:17f

Again Paul says TWO -Those who are free from sin and those who are servants of sin - two choices - never a third.

And what can we expect from the servants of sin? What else but an unrelenting attempt to convince others that those who continue to commit sin "occasionally" are not really the children of Satan.

The last thing Satan wants is for his child to know that he
belongs to the Evil One.

But those who have come to know God know that there
are only two classifications of people - those who keep God's commandments and those who break them.

The apostle John specifically states that the former know God and the latter are "liars" - again, TWO types - those who know God and those who do not.

"And by THIS we know that we have come to know Him,
*if we keep His commandments.*

The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does NOT keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1JO2:3-4

To *KNOW *God is to have eternal life...

And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
JO 17:3

THOSE WHO ARE KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
ARE THOSE WHO HAVE COME TO *KNOW* GOD!


HK

[Whyte Byrd]

The scripture you often leave, taken out of context, is a good example of what scares some people away. How can you expect an unbeliever to welcome your message with open arms when you thump them with it? Wouldn't it be easier and more beneficial to talk with them rather than just toss scripture in the air and wait to see where it lands? Just saying....I used to be one of these people who were scared away by such tactics. Then I found someone who gently guided me in the right direction. Good cause but questionable means.

[jennaflorrie]

We are born into sin - therefore we are children of the devil. We are inclined to sin and blind to God. Only when we are 'born again ' by Gods Spirit - are we made NEW. Brand new. We become children of God. Our desire then, changes - not always immediately, more a growing in the faith. But, ultimately we change, day by day becoming more grown up in the faith. As God works in us and through us - our heavenly father is our father indeed. And our aims and desires become ones wanting to please our heavenly father - an aversion to sin - a turning away. We are only changed by Gods Grace, it is not of ourselves, but the Gift of God.
People who do not know God - as their father - cannot understand deep spiritual truths, they are blind until God by his power opens their eyes. They are dead in their sins - until God by his grace through Jesus Christ - brings them to life.

[deerdog]

Originally Posted by Harold Kupp

Children of the Devil -or not?

The apostle John was taught by Jesus. According to the apostle There are only TWO types of people in this world – Children of God and Children of the Devil.

The Children of God do *not* commit sin.
"Whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin: 1JO 3:9

The Children of Satan continue to commit sin.
"He that committeth sin is of the Devil" 1JO 3:8

There is no third type - we are either the offspring of God or the brood of Satan. John's purpose was to provide
a fool-proof method of testing by which we can know
whose child we are.

If we are a child of God we cease to commit sin. If we
are a child of Satan we continue to commit sin.

If both types commit sin then it would be impossible to distinguish them. If (as some say) the Child of Satan commits sin and the Child of God commits sin "occasionally" - John's analysis is absurd.

John repeated the contrasting relationship...
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God..." 1JO 3:10

The children of God continue to do righteousness and the
whelps of Satan continue to "doeth not righteousness".

Again if the offspring of Satan 'doeth not righteousness" and the children of God also "doeth not righteousness" - then John is spewing nonsense.

Now lets think for a moment, if someone is a child of Satan, who willfully commits sin from time to time but thinks he is a child of God - he is going to say that both the children of God and the children of Satan commit sin.

Why do they do it? Because they commit sin "occasionally"... It is no secret; they freely admit they have not ceased to commit sin.

Jesus anticipated that lie...
"Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." JO 8:34

Many Christians think they are the children of God despite
the fact that they continue to commit sin. Paul - like Jesus -
renounced that heresy...

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Rom 6:16

Those who commit sin are the servants of sin. Those who
do not commit sin are the servants of Jesus. There is no
third type of God's children who commit sin "occasionally.

Over and over, the teachers sent by God poured this truth
into all who were seekers - children of God OR children of Satan. Servants of God or servants of Satan. Two types - period.

"For when ye were the SERVANTS OF SIN, ye were free from righteousness.... But now being made free from sin, and become SERVANTS TO GOD, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." Romans 6:17f

Again Paul says TWO -Those who are free from sin and those who are servants of sin - two choices - never a third.

And what can we expect from the servants of sin? What else but an unrelenting attempt to convince others that those who continue to commit sin "occasionally" are not really the children of Satan.

The last thing Satan wants is for his child to know that he
belongs to the Evil One.

But those who have come to know God know that there
are only two classifications of people - those who keep God's commandments and those who break them.



"And by THIS we know that we have come to know Him,
*if we keep His commandments.*

The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does NOT keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
1JO2:3-4

To *KNOW *God is to have eternal life...

And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
JO 17:3

THOSE WHO ARE KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
ARE THOSE WHO HAVE COME TO *KNOW* GOD!


HK

I dont know you or what you think but it seems to me as if you act as the bible is contradictory well in the verse The Children of God do *not* commit sin.
"Whosoever is born of God doth NOT commit sin: 1JO 3:9 that is not talking about us being sinless. A Child of God still sins but it is in the way we sin compared to the nonchristians. A nonchristian will sin for the enjoyment of it. They think, talk, walk, and act in a worldly way. The christian may still sin but wont be for enjoyment and to just be defiant. See as Christians when we sin there is a "little" thing actually to me a HUGE THING called the Holy Spirit that lays conviction upon me until I dont do it or repent if it has already been done. And one other thing that I could preach on tonight as the Spirit is hitting me is the fact when you talked about The apostle John specifically stating that the former know God and the latter are "liars" - again, TWO types - those who know God and those who do not. Well let me tell ya The BIBLE declares that the Lord knows difference from the beginning and the end and the Bible declares that the glory of the latter house will be greater than the glory of the former house. I am here to tell you that the end will be so much greater than the beginning. What the old sinful person is or was will never even compare to what the New Christian will be. Glory to God I feel I could preach a sermon all night. I am here to tell ya brother that Jesus word is not contradictory. The Lord said you have to beware of false teachers and Glory to God I am aware of false teachers and anyone who wants to put down our Lord in Savior and act like he says two different things. I feel the Holy Spirit upon me so much that im about to start typing in tongues. I say you brother Kupp Jesus is no lier and that he is far from contradictory. I pray you will start reading and studying the Bible with more of an open mind and pray for guidance as you study and read the scripture.

[Latte'Chic]

Praise be to our God!
As I sit and read these threads and ponder upon them, bringing them before the Father in prayer as for my heart aches at what I have read. The anger, hate, rebukes, of those who call themselves saints of God!
And the Lord brings to my heart....the beloved John in his recording of what the Lord spoke to His disciples....

John 16:1-4
These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.
But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Blessings to you, Harold and Donna!!! God is faithful and His word does not come back void, but accomplishes that it was sent forth to do!
Praise His holy name!!!

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Harold Kupp

To *KNOW *God is to have eternal life...

And this is life eternal, that they might KNOW thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
JO 17:3

THOSE WHO ARE KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
ARE THOSE WHO HAVE COME TO *KNOW* GOD!
HK

Harold, Harold, Harold . . . I know you continue to ignore me in your blind adherence to your one note song because you simply don't comprehend the difference between adherence to the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law. The God you know is not the God of Jesus Christ, Harold. God is not some egotistical tyrant coercing and demanding OBEDIENCE from His pitiful creations . . . OR ELSE!! What a primitive and insane view of God that is. Laws have a purpose, Harold . . . they don't exist to be OBEYED . . . just to be OBEYED! When the purpose is undersood and achieved in LOVE . . . the use of fear and punishment for OBEDIENCE is moot . . . It was necessary for the primitive and carnal humans at the time of Jesus because they were incapable of understanding and responding to any other ethic. They OBEYED rulers (or Gods) . . . or they did whatever they wanted to do . . . no such thing as self-control for any other reason. I pray for you and Donna and those you are leading astray to this horrible God of yours.

[Fundamentalist]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Harold, Harold, Harold . . . I know you continue to ignore me in your blind adherence to your one note song

That's because you don't believe in the bible so what's the point?

because you simply don't comprehend the difference between adherence to the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law.

What? this not U.S. court of appeals

The God you know is not the God of Jesus Christ, Harold. God is not some egotistical tyrant coercing and demanding OBEDIENCE from His pitiful creations . . . OR ELSE!! What a primitive and insane view of God that is.

So who was the God that killed a couple for lying?, who was the God that ordered the genocides, who said, leave nothing alive? Harold's view is from the bible. Your view is in your own head which is idolatry. Making up a god to fit your needs. ignoring that "mean" God. Your view has no meit nor support because you can't explain those verses away other than it was written by man, you forget the verses you like were also written by fallible man.

Laws have a purpose, Harold . . . they don't exist to be OBEYED . . . just to be OBEYED! When the purpose is undersood and achieved in LOVE . . .

Yes the purpose has been revealed to us many times over. The Law shows us how holy, righteous, and perfect God is and how wretched beings we are and we all fall short of Him with that the Law drives unbelievers to the foot of the cross in such a state that they are ready to hear grace.

the use of fear and punishment for OBEDIENCE is moot . . . It was necessary for the primitive and carnal humans at the time of Jesus because they were incapable of understanding and responding to any other ethic. They OBEYED rulers (or Gods) . . . or they did whatever they wanted to do . . . no such thing as self-control for any other reason. I pray for you and Donna and those you are leading astray to this horrible God of yours

Trust me when I say, Apostle Paul had way more wisdom than you

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Fundamentalist

That's because you don't believe in the bible so what's the point?

You keep repeating this lie about me, Fundy . . . does your "Biblianity" God tolerate such behavior. I told you very clearly that I believe the bible is inspired by God but written by men. I just don't believe the ridiculous interpretations of the messages in the bible that you, Harold, Donna and all the other literalists and fundamentalists believe.

What? this not U.S. court of appeals

No it isn't . . . it is much higher, fairer and more merciful.

So who was the God that killed a couple for lying?, who was the God that ordered the genocides, who said, leave nothing alive? Harold's view is from the bible. Your view is in your own head which is idolatry. Making up a god to fit your needs. ignoring that "mean" God. Your view has no meit nor support because you can't explain those verses away other than it was written by man, you forget the verses you like were also written by fallible man.

That God was a barbarous egregiously mischaracterized, misidentified, incorrectly blamed, and completely misunderstood God of savages whose false image Jesus was sent to correct . . . at the cost of his own life!!

Yes the purpose has been revealed to us many times over. The Law shows us how holy, righteous, and perfect God is and how wretched beings we are and we all fall short of Him with that the Law drives unbelievers to the foot of the cross in such a state that they are ready to hear grace.

It is telling that you can read and believe all the barbarity and savagery attributed to God and yet consider that "holy, righteous, and perfect." Amazing.

Trust me when I say, Apostle Paul had way more wisdom than you

You wont get any argument about that from me. The question is, Fundy . . do YOU?

[dave737driver]

there is no anger , or hate, When Peter , who jesus loved ,told him he didn't have to go through with it, He was rebuked.

but hate these people, angry? are you kdding me. I've been pouring over the gospel of grace and repentance, the same one I've been saved by for over 10 years. this all due to my spirit quickening because they preach a message contrary to the one God gave me. i still think that there is a big misintrepration here. If Harold can tell me that through weakness , if I stumble, sin by getting upset at the guy who cuts me off in traffic, and in a moment of human weakness , shout at him, then I'm lost and unsaved.

harold says this is true. this one sin is as great as murder. this one part of the law is the same as incest, sodomy, murder, rape and torture...one part equal the whole law..... so I'm saying, that even though it wasn't premeditated and willful, sin happens sometime. but I'm forgivern and realize that it was not Godly behavior. I sin as a parent sometimes by getting angry. But harold thingks this means I'm damned and lost. impossible , to be a child of God, and to screw up as a parent.

By Harold's standard, I'm a child of the devil, and I might as well drown my kids, since I have not the spirit, but i tell you right here, as a parent , I sin.

debating some other christians here as these 2 folks doesn't make me angry.

I realize that in order for edification to be achieved, we must renew our minds, pray without ceasing and the holy spirit maketh intercession for us.

so, anger and hate, come now, that isn't a spirit of love. we're just talking...

[ShanaBrown]

1 John 1:8-1 John 2:1-1

"If we say we have no sin, we are deceving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins. He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin, and if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous"

The apostle John was taught by Jesus. According to the apostle There are only TWO types of people in this world – Children of God and Children of the Devil.

Hi, Jesus also died for children of the devil. As someone shared, we were all once children of the devil. But He delivered us. He loves all men, ;yes, even those who don't love Him. It was His good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself, even those children of the devil, and there will come a time when He will deliver all. (Romans 8) God bless.