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Lover: The Master is speaking of virgins, servants of the master, and two clean animals sheep and goats. I know not how you have arrived at the conclusion that this passage of St. Matthew 25 is refering to believers and nonbelievers. It most certainly is not in the context of our Lord's words. Again I will ask you what the qualifications for being a goat and a sheep are according to the Master?
These are parables, stories telling us what will happen with the saved and unsaved. But, since you are bent on having the above answered, I'm doing it, so you can get on with your process.
Sorry Shana, but all will not return to Him, it ain't gonna happen.
Sorry, ILNC, I believe that all will, and this belief is based on the scriptures
Psalms 22: 27. All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28. For the kingdom is the LORD'S
And He rules over the nations.
Psalms 66 4. "All the earth will worship You, And will sing praises to You;
They will sing praises to Your name." Selah
Psalms 68:18
You have ascended on high, You have led captive Your captives;
You have received gifts among men, Even among the rebellious also, that the LORD God may dwell there
Isaiah 25:6-8
The LORD of hosts will prepare a lavish banquet for all peoples on this mountain;
A banquet of aged wine, choice pieces with marrow,
And refined, aged wine.
7. And on this mountain He will swallow up the covering which is over all peoples,
Even the veil which is stretched over all nations. 8. He will swallow up death for all time, And the Lord GOD will wipe tears away from all faces,
And He will remove the reproach of His people from all the earth;
For the LORD has spoken.
Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger; For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, That all of them may call on the name of the LORD, To serve Him shoulder to shoulder
Psalm :8-10 The Lord is gracious and merciful; slow to anger and great in lovingkindness. The Lord is good to all, and His mercies are over all His works. All Thy works shall give thanks to Thee, O Lord, and Thy godly ones shall bless Thee..."
1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Romans 8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation/creature waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in *hope 21. that the creation/creature itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
*hope=elpis-expectation
God is the Savior of all men.
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It is an interesting fact that every knee, in every dimension of the heavens and earth and underworld ultimately bows IN His name and confesses IN His Name, You are Lord. Such confession is clearly not by force, or by rote, but in worship, celebration & thanksgiving. Such is the meaning of both exomologeo and homologeo.
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Showing that Redemption is a part of Creation, and hence its successful issue depends, not on the creature, but on the CREATOR. He will have a desire to the work of his own hands. (Job 14:15)
Amen and Amen God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-10-2009 at 03:22 PM..
Wow...that's a lot of scriptural quotes. It would be nice if you had summarized your thoughts on it for us.
I understand from it that there are 3 gods: God, Father, and Christ. ( "when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father," ....
So, I guess the first one you quoted, in the section from Isaiah is a loving god. This must be God.
Then he turns into a slavery/overseer with a wicked whip ( Zephaniah ) .... this must be a different god, because here he is called "lord." I am guessing this one is Father...the only reason I say that is later on Christ is identified by name.
Does it make sense for God's Devine word to be so obtuse?
Here you must observe that the passage is a parable; and that the parable is concerning nations, not individual men, as our Lord Himself tells us at the very onset (verse 32):
Quote: And before Him shall be gathered all nations, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from his goats. Goats Dear As Sheep
You must also remember, if you intend to found any conclusion on the parable, or to infer from words spoken of nations conclusions which touch the lot and fate of individual men, that the Judge is here set forth in the tender and familiar form of a Shepherd: that to the Eastern shepherd his goats are well-nigh, if not quite, as dear as his sheep; and that the left hand of a Judge or Ruler is the next best place to his right hand.
Thanks for sharing, Birdy. I hope to study this more. I did once read that some very early Christian drawings show Jesus carrying a goat on His shoulders just as He does a sheep. God bless.
Christians don't understand that the "sword" He brings and "vengeance" He takes on the wicked are directed at us, as well. Judgment begins with the house of God, for the Bride must be - and will be - a spotless reflection of the Savior.
We seem to think that the Blood makes us immune from the judgments of God - forgiven, yes - but the chaff must be separated from the wheat in us all, and we'll be first in line.
Look up dispensation of the gospel; we're a part of a plan bigger than what you hear preached in Sunday School.
Christians don't understand that the "sword" He brings and "vengeance" He takes on the wicked are directed at us, as well. Judgment begins with the house of God, for the Bride must be - and will be - a spotless reflection of the Savior.
We seem to think that the Blood makes us immune from the judgments of God - forgiven, yes - but the chaff must be separated from the wheat in us all, and we'll be first in line.
Look up dispensation of the gospel; we're a part of a plan bigger than what you hear preached in Sunday School.
we're a part of a plan bigger than what you hear preached in Sunday School.
Amen
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Why is God so **** mean?
I'm sure that my kids at school think that I'm mean sometimes when they have to be disciplined. It's a part of life and the growing/learning process. God bless.
Showing that Redemption is a part of Creation, and hence its successful issue depends, not on the creature, but on the CREATOR. He will have a desire to the work of his own hands. (Job 14:15)
mshipmate - it's necessary to see what we are: fallen and utterly depraved and who He is: the Creator and Savior of all men.
We are made of soul and spirit. The soul has taken the seat of power via the fall of (the first) Adam. This part of us includes the carnal mind, and is enmity with God. This is the part of us that cannot conceive the things of God, and will be dealt with.
The spirit of man has been depressed since this Fall, and at salvation it is awakened; however, our soul is still practicing authority in our lives, and must be put under subjection - we call this "dying to self" or "crucifying the flesh" or as Jesus commanded "taking up our cross".
The remnants of the carnal life will always manifest sin and rebellion against the nature of Christ. The only way to remedy this is to burn it out. We can't improve upon it, dress it up, teach it to roll over...nothing.
There's your need for fire, and that's exactly what He is.
Late for lunch...
Hi Elmer,
Sorry I took so long getting back to you. busy day.
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We are made of soul and spirit. The soul has taken the seat of power via the fall of (the first) Adam. This part of us includes the carnal mind, and is enmity with God. This is the part of us that cannot conceive the things of God, and will be dealt with.
Before I comment on your quote above let me say I have great respect for you and the things you say, and you seem very sincere in your beliefs. However I cannot agree with you on your definition of the 'soul.'
#5590. psuche. and means breath or spirit, and corresponse with the Hebrew #'s 5315, 7307 and 2416):--heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.
Number 5590 is used 105 times in the Bible and is translated as soul 58 times, life 40 times, mind 3 times, heart 1 time and heartily 1 time.
Where did our soul come from? Who created our soul? God did, and ONLY God can kill a soul.(Matt 10:28)
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Our soul is the part of us that lives on after death. Our soul contains our spirit, which resides within it.
For what it's worth I use to think our soul was our mind, will, and emotions (that's what I was taught) and our spirit was our conscience until I began to look up the meanings of words.
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The remnants of the carnal life will always manifest sin and rebellion against the nature of Christ. The only way to remedy this is to burn it out. We can't improve upon it, dress it up, teach it to roll over...nothing
I'm pretty sure you say this because of the passage that says "our God is a comsuming fire." And of course He is, but God's fire can work both ways. It can consume the wicked and it can refine the believer at the same time. For when will God do this? When Christ returns. There are several passages that state this. For the sake of length I will just quote this one:
Zech 13:6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.7 ¶ Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
I'm sure that my kids at school think that I'm mean sometimes when they have to be disciplined. It's a part of life and the growing/learning process. God bless.
Do you threaten to torture your children if they decide to do something that you don't like.
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