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Old 02-11-2009, 12:55 PM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,215,332 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Actually, they were. If the sovereign God called you His chosen people, what do you do, but follow rejoicing? (Or stubbornly rebel, but that's another subject. )
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Old 02-11-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: NC
10,259 posts, read 8,243,095 times
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Quote:
Precisely, ShanaB. Our Father, the Father of all fathers has one purpose alone in punishment: change and transformation, yielding the peaceable fruits of righteousness.

"We must all die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He divises ways for the banished to be restored."

***literally: for the banished to not be banished
Amen.
Quote:


While I do agree with your anaology of God as a consuming fire. I must ask how do you reconcile
these verses to what you teach:

Ps 37:10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be

Ps 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

Ps 68:2 As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

Ps 92:7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever.

Ps 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more.

Ps 106:18 And a fire was kindled in their company; the flame burned up the wicked.

Ps 139:19 Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men.

Ps 145:20 The LORD preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy.

Pr 10:25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

Pr 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

Pr 12:7 The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righteous shall stand.

Pr 13:9 The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.

Pr 24:20 For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.

Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Wicked men will not exist forever. Evil and goodness will not coexist for all of eternity as some seem to suggest. If the wicked are burning in an eternal hell for all of eternity, wickedness will exist forever. It is said that these individuals will never return to God, that they are too far gone. These people will then forever be alienated and enemies of God. Yet, all are to eventually be changed and restored to God. Wickedness will cease. All that is sinful will no longer exist and when all are restored to the Father, there will be no more wicked individuals. Jesus came to destroy the works of satan and if the majority or one person remains unreconciled to God for all of eternity, the work of satan will not have been defeated.

“The nations are gathered to the Judgment, that on them may be poured out an the wrath of the fury of the Lord, and this in pity and with a design to heal.... in order that every one may return to the confession of the Lord, that in Jesus’ Name every knee may bow, and every tongue may confess that He is Lord. All God's enemies shall perish, not that they cease to exist, but cease to be enemies.” Jerome on Zephaniah 3:8-10

Psalm 90:3 “You turn man to dust /destruction, and dost say, Return O children of men.."

God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-11-2009 at 03:28 PM..
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,932 posts, read 6,739,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Wicked men will not exist forever. Evil and goodness will not coexist for all of eternity as some seem to suggest. If the wicked are burning in an eternal hell for all of eternity, wickedness will exist forever. It is said that these individuals will never return to God, that they are too far gone. These people will then forever be alienated and enemies of God. Yet, all are to eventually be changed and restored to God. Wickedness will cease. All that is sinful will no longer exist and when all are restored to the Father, there will be no more wicked individuals. Jesus came to destroy the works of satan and if the majority or one person remains unreconciled to God for all of eternity, the work of satan will not have been defeated.
Can't rep, but deserving.
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:53 PM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 658,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Actually not totally correct. I thought you walked in my path? I will be waiting for those reasons you left the path. Thank you
Where was I not 'totally correct' Fundz? The Old Testament is an ethnocentric document no different than, say, the American idea of "Manifest Destiny." It set out to claim that a particular people are somehow chosen of God because of their ancestor who proved his worth by obeying a "voice" to kill his son. This ancestor supposedly also heard this voice telling him land occupied by other peoples would be given to him and his posterity. As a result, they believed they had all the right, later on down the road, to massacre said people because their god told them to. Of course the justification was, "they were evil people who threatened to contaminate said 'chosen people.'

Maybe it is just me, but that kind of theology smacks of the same thing the European Conquistadors of the Americas and the Europeans colonists of the 1800s in Africa did. I don't buy that bull about them being "God's chosen people." Why? Because they said so in some antiquated book? I was born at night but definitely not last night.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 3,162,691 times
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What happens to non-beleivers when they die is the same as what happens to beleivers:
1. Die
2. Rot.
The only difference is that non-beleivers didn't waste a bunch of time and money chasing something that is both illusory and constraining.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 658,271 times
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By the way Elmer, there are a bunch of people walking around the street just up here from me in Harlem claiming our black race are the chosen people of God. Yes, they use the same Bible to make these claims also. Guess it should have been us killing Canaanites in ancient times and Palestinians today to ensure our right to our "promised land."

As for you Fundz, here is one of those reasons that we are already discussing. As for the first reason that led to the wheels falling off...really could not digest a god making bets with his so-called enemy to see who could prove a point as in the case of the story of Job.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:18 PM
 
4,512 posts, read 4,395,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
Where was I not 'totally correct' Fundz? The Old Testament is an ethnocentric document no different than, say, the American idea of "Manifest Destiny." It set out to claim that a particular people are somehow chosen of God because of their ancestor who proved his worth by obeying a "voice" to kill his son. This ancestor supposedly also heard this voice telling him land occupied by other peoples would be given to him and his posterity. As a result, they believed they had all the right, later on down the road, to massacre said people because their god told them to. Of course the justification was, "they were evil people who threatened to contaminate said 'chosen people.'

Maybe it is just me, but that kind of theology smacks of the same thing the European Conquistadors of the Americas and the Europeans colonists of the 1800s in Africa did. I don't buy that bull about them being "God's chosen people." Why? Because they said so in some antiquated book? I was born at night but definitely not last night.


the idea of being "chosen" deserves independent research, still.

perhaps more a right brain thing.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,932 posts, read 6,739,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
What happens to non-beleivers when they die is the same as what happens to beleivers:
1. Die
2. Rot.
The only difference is that non-beleivers didn't waste a bunch of time and money chasing something that is both illusory and constraining.
I'd rather be wrong and rot, than not turn and burn.*

*I actually believe we'll all come around forcibly, but the path is shorter (and more glorious) for those who bow now.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Little Elm, TX
6,932 posts, read 6,739,760 times
Reputation: 4102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deguire View Post
By the way Elmer, there are a bunch of people walking around the street just up here from me in Harlem claiming our black race are the chosen people of God. Yes, they use the same Bible to make these claims also. Guess it should have been us killing Canaanites in ancient times and Palestinians today to ensure our right to our "promised land."

As for you Fundz, here is one of those reasons that we are already discussing. As for the first reason that led to the wheels falling off...really could not digest a god making bets with his so-called enemy to see who could prove a point as in the case of the story of Job.
There is no difference in Christ as to the people, only the circumcism of the heart. (Gal 3:28)
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:28 PM
 
Location: LAT: 40.77 LON: 73.98
604 posts, read 658,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
There is no difference in Christ as to the people, only the circumcism of the heart. (Gal 3:28)
Cute.

So why didn't we hear a similar refrain in the Old Testament as opposed to "kill those heathen bastards in the name of God?"
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