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2. Salvation is not a reprieve from doom, but a transformation from good to better.
Without asking for a little more elaboration, I'd have to say I pretty much agree 100% with this "heresy." I am constantly amazed by the attitude of most Christians on this subject. It seems that their entire focus is on a "reprieve from doom." To the average Mormon, salvation means so much more and the "reprieve from doom" is merely the first step towards the realization of unlimited potential in the eternities to come. For us, life is all about improvement. It's not about being "saved" from an eternity in Hell but about becoming better people every day of our lives.
Without asking for a little more elaboration, I'd have to say I pretty much agree 100% with this "heresy." I am constantly amazed by the attitude of most Christians on this subject. It seems that their entire focus is on a "reprieve from doom." To the average Mormon, salvation means so much more and the "reprieve from doom" is merely the first step towards the realization of unlimited potential in the eternities to come. For us, life is all about improvement. It's not about being "saved" from an eternity in Hell but about becoming better people every day of our lives.
Maybe because it's how scripture teaches it. Christ is specifically called the "propitiation" for our sin. Because of him, we are first and foremost saved from the wrath of God.
Maybe because it's how scripture teaches it. Christ is specifically called the "propitiation" for our sin. Because of him, we are first and foremost saved from the wrath of God.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
2. Salvation is not a reprieve from doom, but a transformation from good to better.
I believe Scripture teaches this:
Salvation is a reprieve from wrath; sanctification is a transformation to holiness.
Christ is specifically called the "propitiation" for our sin. Because of him, we are first and foremost saved from the wrath of God.
You make it sound like God really hates us.
Obviously, we are not ever going to see eye to eye on this subject, and I am truly sorry that you see avoiding hellfire as the most you can hope for. I suspect that someday, you might be in for a very pleasant surprise.
Umm...yah. That's what the Bible says about the natural man -- the one that is not regenerate:
Rom. 3:10-12, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11There is none who understands. There is none who seeks for God; 12All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”
Eph. 2:3, "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."
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Obviously, we are not ever going to see eye to eye on this subject, and I am truly sorry that you see avoiding hellfire as the most you can hope for. I suspect that someday, you might be in for a very pleasant surprise.
I have never suggested that it is "the most you can hope for". It's the biggest miracle -- that we who do not seek God and hate God are saved by him. But in addition to that, we will live forever in his presence--and that is a wonderful and glorious thing.
Umm...yah. That's what the Bible says about the natural man -- the one that is not regenerate:
Rom. 3:10-12, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11There is none who understands. There is none who seeks for God; 12All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”
Eph. 2:3, "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."
Interestingly enough, that's what the Book of Mormon teaches, too:
"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father." (Mosiah 3:19)
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I have never suggested that it is "the most you can hope for". It's the biggest miracle -- that we who do not seek God and hate God are saved by him. But in addition to that, we will live forever in his presence--and that is a wonderful and glorious thing.
It is a wonderful and glorious thing. But even that is not all we can hope for.
I've got one question for you, Vizio. You say that "we who do not seek God and hate God are saved by Him." That doesn't sound like what I've been listening to you say all these years you've been posting. I thought you believed that only those who love God will be saved by Him. Now you're saying that those who hate Him will also be saved? Or am I misunderstanding you?
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