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Old 02-28-2009, 11:19 AM
 
988 posts, read 1,612,791 times
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[quote=dave737driver;
Paul said "don't let any man judege you in new moons or sabbaths"...etc


you do understand, I support Jesus commands and recognize justification by faith and that it requires repentance and regeneration. Jesus, peter and Paul all preached repentance[/quote]



Dave are you suggesting that Jesus' commands are different than the ten commandments? Was Jesus not at Mt. Sinai when they were given. Has he changed?

Dave - imagine you are the man who asked Jesus what he must do to have eternal life and listen as Jesus says to you....

Mat 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?"

Mat 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."


Mat 19:18 He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,

Mat 19:19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Dave - Jesus quoted from the ten commandments which were written as one law by the finger of God.

Would Jesus say one thing to that man and another to you?


HK

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:26 PM
 
381 posts, read 682,308 times
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Harold,
Jesus gave many commands in the gospel. I accept that the writers heard Him say this. who knows what else Luke didn't record or missed. but of course this is what God gave us. I'm going with it.

for example,
I whipped out matthew and in 5
vs16 Let your light shine
whoever is angry with His brother without a cause shall be in danger of judgement
24 Leave your gift at the altar and reconcile
32whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery
34Do not swear at all neither by heaven
35 Not to resist an evil person
40 let him have your cloak also
42Give to him who asks you
44 Love your enemies
ch6
don't do charitable deeds in public
pray in secret
give with your left hand, so the right knows not
don't sound a trumpet like the hypocrites do
20 lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven


I could go and on for these all are instructions by Jesus himself. I would say anything from Jesus is a command.

I do not suggest not to keep the commandments, heavens no that is not what I'm saying. and let me throw in that grace shouldn't abound so I can drop these.

By walking in love and in the spirit , I can and will not only keep those but fulfill God's will for my life.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Germany
33 posts, read 53,803 times
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Quote:
Mat 19:16 And behold, a man came up to him, saying, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?"

Mat 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments."


Mat 19:18 He said to him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness,

Mat 19:19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Dave - Jesus quoted from the ten commandments which were written as one law by the finger of God.

Would Jesus say one thing to that man and another to you?
Jesus was making the point to that man, that the way he was trying to enter, would not directly get him in but would lead him to Christ when he saw he could not do it. Once in the kingdom, all the commandments have been kept by Christ, incuding those which were shadows and types like the Sabbath keeping, which are now to be understood in their fulfillment in the spirit - the day of rest is something to live in every day. It is the rest from mans works, in total dependance on the working of the Holy Spirit which will result in a holy life from the new nature, not one of living according to rules but living according to ones new nature, free and like a little child. His burden is light.
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:43 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,612,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
I agree, Harold.
Although, I think the lambs should hear a message encouraging them to learn from the past and to pursue godliness.

I think that's why the doctrine of OSAS is dangerous.
It encourages no improvement above the behavior of one-hour Christians.
It also creates confusion when confronted with passages similar to those in Hebrews 6 and 10.
...And the passages themselves are often not dealt with as being different from the daily struggle we all go through.

Rather, I think those who take grace for granted because of OSAS, risk falling into the context of Hebrews 10.
...Not actually, rejecting Christ, but not rejecting sin either.
...Habitually sinning, because "Jesus already took care of it."

It isn't quite as severe as the Nicolaitan concept that "more sin results in more grace" - but still a position of jeopardy by the lack of sincerity.


Amen brother... OSAS is the great lie of Satan "Ye shall not surely die" with Christian frosting.

HK
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:49 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,612,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enter-His-rest View Post


EHR says:

It is the rest from mans works, in total dependance on the working of the Holy Spirit which will result in a holy life from the new nature, not one of living according to rules but living according to ones new nature, free and like a little child. His burden is light.

The Scriptures say:

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.


1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


HK
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Old 02-28-2009, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Germany
33 posts, read 53,803 times
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Of course we keep His commandments but where they were in types under the Old Covenant they are now fulfilled in spirit and truth.
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Germany
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To explain it better - the Sabbath was one day a week that the Jews had to think of God first and commit the day to Him. Under the new covenant man must be thinking of God every day of the week and every minute. He has died to himself and there are no 6 days when he can get on with his life as it were. Outward ceremonies do not make a man holy and they were to lead men to Christ.

It is much easier to rest and keep one day a week than obey the spirit of it.
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Old 02-28-2009, 07:48 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,612,791 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enter-His-rest View Post
To explain it better - the Sabbath was one day a week that the Jews had to think of God first and commit the day to Him. Under the new covenant man must be thinking of God every day of the week and every minute. He has died to himself and there are no 6 days when he can get on with his life as it were. Outward ceremonies do not make a man holy and they were to lead men to Christ.

It is much easier to rest and keep one day a week than obey the spirit of it.

What you just said was that you can keep the 4th commandment even though you are breaking it.

Could you explain how one could break the letter of the law and keep the Spirit of the law?


If I am committing adultery with my neighbors wife how could I be keeping the deeper spirit of the law at the same time?


HK
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Old 03-01-2009, 02:47 AM
 
381 posts, read 682,308 times
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you cannot preach OSAS without preaching what Jesus said and that was repentance, turning away from sin. Each person he encountered personally and healed was told to sin no more and to one, the man cured of palsy I believe was told to sin no more less a worse thing come upon him.
Pater and Paul preached justification by faith, repentance and regeneration.
while Jesus said "unless ye be born again" Paul spoke of renewing our minds each day and being transformed by this by the reading of the word.

Easy Believing is a malady caused by gifted orators calling themselves evangelicals who deliver " pray this simple prayer" and then all is fine.
regrettably this message is far short of the true gospel Paul and apter preached Here it is,
"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" ACTs 2 by peter

to fully understand salvation one has to be able to grasp justification and the one time substitutionary atonement of jesus death on the cross and the resurrection. and be told that turning away from sin and be transformed is the evidence that this took place. You simply cannot crucify Jesus over and over. There is nothing wrong or incorrect about OSAS unless the other half of the message of the truth is left out.

So, OSAS isn't a lie, but satan's lie is all and I mean "All" you have to do is ask jesus to come into your life and be your personal savior and you will have eternal life' {this is the "easy Believism doctrine destroying the church}

NOTICE the omission of all the other key tenets of salvation. Repentance, Regeneration and being healed and set free by the Sword of Truth" the word of God.
"Whoever the Son has set free, he is free indeed." that is freedom from sin and its bondage not a license to do anyhting. please don't confuse the context.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:26 AM
 
Location: Germany
33 posts, read 53,803 times
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Quote:
What you just said was that you can keep the 4th commandment even though you are breaking it.

Could you explain how one could break the letter of the law and keep the Spirit of the law?


If I am committing adultery with my neighbors wife how could I be keeping the deeper spirit of the law at the same time?
None of the law can be broken. The law of sin and death stands.

However, the part of the law which was ceremonial and was a figure of the new covenant, is to be kept now not in outward terms but inward.

So therefore batism which was with water under the old becomes baptism of the Spirit under the new. It is not a sin to baptise in water, but it does not do anything only baptism of the Spirit is efficacious. Many are water baptised and never follow Christ.

Of course it is still sin to kill, commit adultery etc, but the keeping of days, sacrifice and dietary law etc are fulfilled already under the new. The meaning of the Sabbeth in the old, was the day of rest, the day(s) of perfection. Jesus Himself broke the Sabbath law when He was ont he earth to demonstrate this.
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