Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is a title that only God should give to another. I understand that words get watered down, and definitions blurred, but when it comes to Christ or Christian (Annointed with Light) it is a term worth keeping Holy.
In the Aramaic (Jesus' language) it means without spot, or blemish (no sin). Like God, Like Jesus.
If you prefer Mature, that is your perogative, but if we are to be Mature like our Father in Heaven, then i think that is profound as well, and can be interpretted as sinless. For certainly the maturity of God is without blemish.
Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
If we are not as our Master, then we are not Mature, and therefore fallen short of what He desires of us.
godspeed,
freedom
Quote:
In the Aramaic (Jesus' language) it means without spot, or blemish (no sin). Like God, Like Jesus.
That could very well be but the the N.T. is written in Greek. I don't think the Kupps are quoting form a Bible written in Aramaic.
That could very well be but the the N.T. is written in Greek. I don't think the Kupps are quoting form a Bible written in Aramaic.
I read the KJV it uses Perfect. I read the Aramaic, it uses Perfect.
So the mature definition is subjective, it is a way for people to weaken the word.
I think when Jesus said Perfect in the Aramaic, and in the Hebrew He was speaking of being Perfect, or one who has overcome sin. If you wish to think that mature isn't one that overcomes sin, then you have chosen the level that you are comfortable with.
Jesus is Perfect, and He wants us to be Like Him. That is enough of a testimony for me to see it as the highest potential attitude.
I would suggest reading all 99 verses that use the word perfect, and the context is more than enough information to determine the message that God wishes us to digest.
I read the KJV it uses Perfect. I read the Aramaic, it uses Perfect.
So the mature definition is subjective, it is a way for people to weaken the word.
I think when Jesus said Perfect in the Aramaic, and in the Hebrew He was speaking of being Perfect, or one who has overcome sin. If you wish to think that mature isn't one that overcomes sin, then you have chosen the level that you are comfortable with.
Jesus is Perfect, and He wants us to be Like Him. That is enough of a testimony for me to see it as the highest potential attitude.
I would suggest reading all 99 verses that use the word perfect, and the context is more than enough information to determine the message that God wishes us to digest.
godspeed,
freedom
Quote:
If you wish to think that mature isn't one that overcomes sin, then you have chosen the level that you are comfortable with.
Shaking my head...I never said being mature meant you didn't/couldn't be an overcomer. I am just pointing out that God wants us to be mature, not sinless.
As I stated before there is only ONE who was sinless. I wouldn't began to make myself out to be equal with Him.
Oh MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: eek:
What in the hell is wrong with you people!!!?????
SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!
I have now turned away from GOD.......are you happy now????
And it's all your fault K**** and G******.....and you too FR*****.
How exactly are you going to answer for that SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, SINNY SIN SIN.....HUH????????????
And I'm not joking..........I give up. I've gone back to being a Wiccan....at least they can agree on everything and no one is condemning anyone else. You will be the cause of me going to hell. Guess I'll see you there.
Oh MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: eek:
What in the hell is wrong with you people!!!?????
SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!
I have now turned away from GOD.......are you happy now????
And it's all your fault K**** and G******.....and you too FR*****.
How exactly are you going to answer for that SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, SINNY SIN SIN.....HUH????????????
And I'm not joking..........I give up. I've gone back to being a Wiccan....at least they can agree on everything and no one is condemning anyone else. You will be the cause of me going to hell. Guess I'll see you there.
They are not correct and they can NOT possibly have Jesus and the holy spirit in their hearts and spread such hateful, condemnatory,and unforgiving interpetation of scripture in the name of Jesus who is the epitome of love and acceptance, DOTL. They may have a lot of self-hate and unresolved issues that fosters such intense vindictiveness and sense of absolute condemnation and vengeance with no sign whatever of the love of Jesus. It may be acceptable "Biblianity" in their minds . . . but it is definitely not the Christianity and loving Jesus that I follow. I certainly hope that this is not a true statement of your intent DOTL . . . you have come so far in love of Jesus and understanding of your relationship. God bless. Be Well,
Mystic
Oh MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!: eek:
What in the hell is wrong with you people!!!?????
SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!
I have now turned away from GOD.......are you happy now????
And it's all your fault K**** and G******.....and you too FR*****.
How exactly are you going to answer for that SIN, SIN, SIN, SIN, SINNY SIN SIN.....HUH????????????
And I'm not joking..........I give up. I've gone back to being a Wiccan....at least they can agree on everything and no one is condemning anyone else. You will be the cause of me going to hell. Guess I'll see you there.
Dotl,
How is it when people are exhorting to live the teachings of Christ, you get all bent out of shape?
Be ye doers of the Word, not Hearers only... deceiving your own selves.
Not very mature to blame other believers for your choice to leave the teachings of Christ. If anything it is our false accusing and judgement of others that rocks our spiritual boat.
They are not correct and they can NOT possibly have Jesus and the holy spirit in their hearts and spread such hateful, condemnatory,and unforgiving interpetation of scripture in the name of Jesus who is the epitome of love and acceptance, DOTL. They may have a lot of self-hate and unresolved issues that fosters such intense vindictiveness and sense of absolute condemnation and vengeance with no sign whatever of the love of Jesus. It may be acceptable "Biblianity" in their minds . . . but it is definitely not the Christianity and loving Jesus that I follow. I certainly hope that this is not a true statement of your intent DOTL . . . you have come so far in love of Jesus and understanding of your relationship. God bless. Be Well,
Mystic
So you also think its wrong to live the teachings of Christ. To not keep the word.
A lot of the so-called "sins" are really crimes. What should be done is, instead of placing these criminals under some hypocritical covers, hand them over to law enforcement.
So you also think its wrong to live the teachings of Christ. To not keep the word.
You ask two separate questions without apparently even being aware of it. There is a spirit to the teachings that inform the way to live and there is the letter of the word as you interpret it. Christ was no mind-numbed robot following some instructions in a manual of life. You cannot be remotely like Jesus or living in his teachings by doing so. Grow up, Freedom . . . spread your wings and try to fly with Jesus as the support under your wings and your guide to spiritual maturity. Surely it is time to leave the training manual behind and actually live as an adult with Christ in love and spiritual joy.
Actually these verses do need to be intrepreted. All of the Word needs to be 'rightly divided.' These passages are no exception.
Instead of starting with v. 4 let's begin with v. 1:
Hebrews 6:1 "Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; notlaying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,"
What is this verse telling us? Note is says we are to leave (behind) the basic principles of 'the doctrine of Christ.' What is the doctrine of Christ? Verse 2 tells us:
Hebrews 6:2 "Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."
Okay, continuing. What else does v. 1 tell us? "Let us go unto *perfection." Remembering that the word perfect/perfection in the Greek means 'mature' we see we are to 'grow up.' What does that mean? It means to move ahead, study deeper, get into the 'meat' of the Word. Leave behind the 'milk' of the Word. Study and become 'mature' in the Word.
With that thought in mind let's look at the first v. you quoted:
Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were *once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,"
This verse is intrepreted incorrectly by many well meaning people. What does it mean to be 'once enlightened'?
It means you have studied (with the help of the Holy Spirit) the deeper things in the Bible and have come to understand them.
Hebrews 6:5 "And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"
Two things here. Tasted of the good word means understanding the deeper things, and 'powers of the world to come' means the next 'age.'
Hebrews 6:6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame."
This verse doesn't mean what you are trying to make it mean. It means if you have studied the deeper things, the Holy Spirit has given you wisdom/knowledge to understand them and THEN you go back again to the things mentioned in v.2, you are snubbing your nose at God and putting Him to shame.
Now for the other vs. you posted:
Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Again this verse doesn't mean what you are implying.
Note it says, 'recieved the knowledge of the truth.' This is again referring to those who leave behind the basics and study the meat of the Word, and willfully turn their back on what they've learned.
Hebrews 10:27 "But a certain fearful looking for of judgment, and fiery indignation which shall devour *the adversaries."
Whos's going to be judged here. Christians or the adversaries?
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:"
Those that broke Moses' law received their punishment for their deed by word of two or three witnesses.
Hebrews 10:29 "Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith He was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Again this speaks of those who who are 'worthy,' those who studied, studied and studied and then turned their back on it.
Rightly divide the Word of Truth
I believe mshipmate has rightly divided the Word...he is telling it exactly how it is. Very accurately too, IMO.
Questions to ask yourself:
Recently, just a few weeks ago, this "commit one single sin, one single transgression, and you're forever doomed" thing suddenly popped onto this forum. Before that, we Christians had our usual differences, yes...we disagreed on some things, but not to the extreme it is now. We have lost our peace, our patience, and even to some extent: now our love for one another.
I have to ask: (and I'd like you to look specifically at the fruit this thing has born) Why? Because the fruit is how we can know the tree. This issue has been beaten to death, around and around and around, with multiple posts, from all points of view. What good has it brought us? What hope has it brought us? What scriptures support the (implied) theory that this is absolutely, undeniably, the unforgiveable sin? How many unsaved people have been convinced that Christianity "is the way to go", after reading these frightening posts? How many people are persuaded that "God is loving, kind, and forgiving", after reading these threads? How many Christians, after reading these threads, are now convinced that they are forever lost, because now they somehow think they have committed the "unforgiveable" sin? (Or...they think they never were saved to begin with)? That being saved is now actually some lofty near-unattainable goal, that only a very scarce select few will ever be able to attain? And if you do happen to get saved, then you must forever after walk on egg shells, pins and needles, the rest of your life, knowing that only one single sin, one single transgression, one single screw-up seperates you from eternal damnation from an unforgiving God, with no hope of forgiveness?
How have these threads been a blessing to you? What comfort, and peace, and hope have they brought to you? (be truthful...) A tree is known by it's fruit...if there is no peace, no love, no forbearance, no forgiveness, etc, etc...(you be the judge)...
Dear brothers and sisters, I believe the enemy has struck the C-D Christianity forum...in an effort to bring division and strife, to us believers: dissagreement, bickering, and division. And thus far...he has largely succeeded. We are widely disagreed over this issue. You should know, that the Bible teaches we are to judge one by the fruits they have born (fruits: end result). Are the fruits Peace? Love? Forbearance? Kindness? Patience? Kindness? Are they (instead) Strife? Division? Hopelessness? Bickering? No peace?
My appeal: let us Stop this arguing amongst ourselves! What is going on recently is not helping the Gospel of Jesus...
Bud
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
: eek:
