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Old 02-10-2009, 08:29 AM
 
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Were talking carnal lust because we are carnal. Now when you lust for the things of God then that is good I think but since we are carnal by nature therefore we want nothing to do with God which is why I believe that type of lust, that thirst is a righteous, good thirst that only leads to good and Holy virtues although I am not 100% sure even that lust is good because many bad things have been done out of that lust in the name of God and I see no where in the bible that says, overall lust is good for us

Lusting of the flesh, world etc....however is a sin, the desire builds to a breaking point, people will lie, steal, commit adultery etc... Lust has as its focus pleasing oneself, and it often leads to unwholesome actions to fulfill one's desires with no regard to the consequences. Lust is about possession and greed. All of the worlds problems stem from lust

(Job 31:11–12) 11 For lust is a shameful sin, a crime that should be punished. 12 It is a fire that burns all the way to hell. It would wipe out everything I own.

If that lust is not for God nor is it giving God the glory then that lust is shameful, impure, disgusting wretched sin.

(Matthew 5:28) 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Do you know the woman you are lusting after?, Do you know she is married? Does she belong to you? How would you feel if you knew some young man had lustful thoughts of your daughter? How can lusting after a woman other than your wife not lead to impure thoughts? Even if she is 18 and single, she belongs to someone in the future as do you. So yes, you are committing adultery in your heart

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-10-2009 at 08:46 AM..
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:36 AM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,594,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
Greek (word #1937 epithumeo).
1937. epithumeo ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o from 1909 and 2372; to set the heart upon, i.e. long for (rightfully or otherwise):--covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).


Positive examples of "lust" in the Bible

Deuteronomy 14:26 God commanded the Israelites to turn the tithes into money and spend it on whatever their soul lusts for;

Psalm 21:2 God satisfies your lusts if they are good and right for you;

Psalm 132:13 the Lord himself lusted Zion for his habitation;

Proverbs 10:24 the lust of the righteous shall be granted;

Proverbs 11:23 the lust of the righteous is good, and this is in contrast to the lust of the wicked;

Proverbs 13:12 lust will earn you the "tree of life", and not eternal torment in the lake of fire, as many Christians teach today; and

Isaiah 26:8 the lust of our soul is to Godís name.

So we see "lusting" is not sinning.

As far as Matthew 5:28 goes, adultery can only be committed if the woman is married, so in context, Jesus must have been speaking about lusting after a married woman, which is sinful. Otherwise we must interpret this to mean that any lust (desire) of any woman is sinful. This interpretation is contradictory, so since God is not the author of confusion, then man's interpretations must be. Ergo, lusting is not sinful.
Okay for starters as you said, #1937 is the Greek meaning but you are quoting passages from the O.T. Second the passages you quoted have several #'s not just one. And first rule of intrepretaion is always use the defintion that fits the context of the sentence. Second rule don't take the passage out of context.

That having been said let's look at some of the passages you posted.BTW I'm not sure what 'version' you used, but I'm using the KJV so I can look up the Strong's #'s and meanings.

Quote:
26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
Now let's look at what God was really saying here:

22 ∂ Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice,

Psa 21:1 ∂ To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The king shall joy in thy strength, O LORD; and in thy salvation how greatly shall he rejoice!
2 Thou hast given him his heartís *desire, (#8378)and hast not withholden the request of his lips. Sela

#8378. means, a longing, a delight

Psa 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath *desired (#183)it for His habitation.

*desire, a primative root to wish for, covet, greatly desire.

Prov.10:21 The lips of the righteous feed many: but fools die for want of wisdom.22 ∂ The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.23 ∂ It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.24 ∂ The fear of the wicked, it shall come upon him: but the *desire (#8378)of the righteous shall be granted.25 As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation.

#8378. means, a longing, a delight

Prov. 11:20 ∂ They that are of a froward heart are abomination to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.21 ∂ Though hand join in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.22 ∂ As a jewel of gold in a swineís snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion.23 ∂ The *desire (#8378)of the righteous is only good: but the expectation of the wicked is wrath.

#8378. means, a longing, a delight

Prov. 13:8 ∂ The ransom of a manís life are his riches: but the poor heareth not rebuke.9 ∂ The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out.10 ∂ Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.11 ∂ Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.12 ∂ Hope deferred maketh the heart sick: but when the *desire (#8378) cometh, it is a tree of life.

#8378. means, a longing, a delight.
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:03 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,422 posts, read 29,558,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it deserved its own thread:

I am curious........if God doesn't mind me watching the magnificence of His clouds building in the west, He has no problem with me cherishing the delicate beauty of a flower, has no problem with me being amazed at the flight of a bee, has no problem with me laughing and paying close attention to the antics of a chipmunk, why is there such objection to my finding pleasure in the feminine form.......admiring and cherishing the curves, swells, and incredible loveliness of a woman?
Because admiring nature won't get you into trouble.
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
2,834 posts, read 4,028,439 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it deserved its own thread:

I am curious........if God doesn't mind me watching the magnificence of His clouds building in the west, He has no problem with me cherishing the delicate beauty of a flower, has no problem with me being amazed at the flight of a bee, has no problem with me laughing and paying close attention to the antics of a chipmunk, why is there such objection to my finding pleasure in the feminine form.......admiring and cherishing the curves, swells, and incredible loveliness of a woman?
I think it all come do to your intent behind your actions.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
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Lusting after another person's stuff, can lead to jealousy or theft.

Both Jealousy and theft are bad.

Lusting after your own stuff is fine.

You own a car, you like your car, while fixing a flat tire, you might lust after driving your car. That is fine.

When you begin lusting after someone else' stuff, wanting their stuff, that is bad.

To lust after your own wife, for example, is fine.

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Old 02-10-2009, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,903,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it deserved its own thread:

I am curious........if God doesn't mind me watching the magnificence of His clouds building in the west, He has no problem with me cherishing the delicate beauty of a flower, has no problem with me being amazed at the flight of a bee, has no problem with me laughing and paying close attention to the antics of a chipmunk, why is there such objection to my finding pleasure in the feminine form.......admiring and cherishing the curves, swells, and incredible loveliness of a woman?
The admiration is not the problem but if you take it further to lust then there is the problem. I am an artist and I admire the beauty of many things especially the human form, but if I feel myself becoming aroused then I know it is time to take a break and do something else for a while. I fell for the lie many years ago that porn and fantasizing was fine and my wife has helped me to resist these sins. I am not perfect in it but I am a work in progress.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:31 PM
 
298 posts, read 624,556 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Sorry never saw it.....I beg your apology. I wasn't ignoring you. I believe lusting is a sin. Jesus said so. Whoever lust after a woman in his heart committing adultery. That is one bugger I am working on in my spiritual walk.

Jesus lusting? I don't believe Jesus could sin, I believe he was tempted.
Agree
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:32 PM
 
105 posts, read 211,327 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodpasture View Post
I posted this elsewhere, but I thought it deserved its own thread:

I am curious........if God doesn't mind me watching the magnificence of His clouds building in the west, He has no problem with me cherishing the delicate beauty of a flower, has no problem with me being amazed at the flight of a bee, has no problem with me laughing and paying close attention to the antics of a chipmunk, why is there such objection to my finding pleasure in the feminine form.......admiring and cherishing the curves, swells, and incredible loveliness of a woman?
Because she's not your wife?
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:36 PM
 
298 posts, read 624,556 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
Greek (word #1937 epithumeo).
1937. epithumeo ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o from 1909 and 2372; to set the heart upon, i.e. long for (rightfully or otherwise):--covet, desire, would fain, lust (after).


Positive examples of "lust" in the Bible

Deuteronomy 14:26 God commanded the Israelites to turn the tithes into money and spend it on whatever their soul lusts for;

Psalm 21:2 God satisfies your lusts if they are good and right for you;

Psalm 132:13 the Lord himself lusted Zion for his habitation;

Proverbs 10:24 the lust of the righteous shall be granted;

Proverbs 11:23 the lust of the righteous is good, and this is in contrast to the lust of the wicked;

Proverbs 13:12 lust will earn you the "tree of life", and not eternal torment in the lake of fire, as many Christians teach today; and

Isaiah 26:8 the lust of our soul is to Godís name.

So we see "lusting" is not sinning.

As far as Matthew 5:28 goes, adultery can only be committed if the woman is married, so in context, Jesus must have been speaking about lusting after a married woman, which is sinful. Otherwise we must interpret this to mean that any lust (desire) of any woman is sinful. This interpretation is contradictory, so since God is not the author of confusion, then man's interpretations must be. Ergo, lusting is not sinful.
The idea behind lusting after a married woman is that it the sexual lusting is adultery even if the two people do not have sex. The main principle here is that sexual sin can be committed without a physical act.

This principle of thoughts being sinful even if no action is present is also taught by Jesus in Matthew 5:21-22 - You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

The only way that this idea of physical lusting after a non-married person is not sin, is if the physical act of having sex between two non-married people is not a sin. Otherwise, when you lust after a nonmarried person (in a sexual manner) the principle laid out by Jesus is that this sin (in thought but not yet action) is just as sinful as if you had sex with someone who is not married.

Fundamentalists point is valid.

It may be difficult to not lust after the opposite sex. It may not come naturally to your sinful flesh. However, that does not mean that the standard for what is right is confusing, or that the standard does not exist because you think it's unrealistic to not commit that particular sin.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:52 AM
 
178 posts, read 341,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVbulldawg View Post
The idea behind lusting after a married woman is that it the sexual lusting is adultery even if the two people do not have sex. The main principle here is that sexual sin can be committed without a physical act.

This principle of thoughts being sinful even if no action is present is also taught by Jesus in Matthew 5:21-22 - You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.' "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

The only way that this idea of physical lusting after a non-married person is not sin, is if the physical act of having sex between two non-married people is not a sin. Otherwise, when you lust after a nonmarried person (in a sexual manner) the principle laid out by Jesus is that this sin (in thought but not yet action) is just as sinful as if you had sex with someone who is not married.

Fundamentalists point is valid.

It may be difficult to not lust after the opposite sex. It may not come naturally to your sinful flesh. However, that does not mean that the standard for what is right is confusing, or that the standard does not exist because you think it's unrealistic to not commit that particular sin.
What was the penalty for a man and an unmarried woman having sexual relations? With sin comes punishment as laid out in scripture. What was the punishment?
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