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Old 02-11-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,741 posts, read 47,547,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
What was the penalty for a man and an unmarried woman having sexual relations? With sin comes punishment as laid out in scripture. What was the punishment?
Depending on the circumstances, it could be that he pays a fine. Or he might be stoned, or they might both be stoned, or they might be married.

It all depends on the circumstances.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,719,979 times
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If men didn't find women attractive there would be no children. It is natural to look, to desire, to lust. It is NOT what you are tempted to do that causes problems...It is what you do.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:51 PM
 
4,512 posts, read 6,584,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcashley View Post
If men didn't find women attractive there would be no children. It is natural to look, to desire, to lust. It is NOT what you are tempted to do that causes problems...It is what you do.

a good deal of fine-tuning needed, however, imho.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:45 PM
 
178 posts, read 341,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Depending on the circumstances, it could be that he pays a fine. Or he might be stoned, or they might both be stoned, or they might be married.

It all depends on the circumstances.
Precisely. Which means the act of consensual sex between a man and an unmarried woman is not a sin.

The man paid a fine (what the dowry would have been) if he didn't marry the woman and if she was a virgin. If she wasn't a virgin, there was no payment, so as to prevent the father from making a harlot out of his daughter.

He was stoned only if the woman was married (which meant they both were stoned), or if he refused to pay which amounted to the sin of theivery. The crime was that he stole the virtue of the woman and didn't pay or didn't marry her.

The next scenario was they would get married. Does this sound like a punishment? If God commands that they enter into a holy union blessed by Him, doesn't this show that they didn't commit a sin? Only disobeying the command to marry would be the sin.

Ergo, the act of a man and an unmarried woman doesn't have an inherent label of sin attached. Which means the lust for an unmarried woman also doesn't have this sin label either. For if the act is sinless, so is the thought of the act.

Please show in scripture where the mere act of consensual sex between a man and an unmarried woman demanded an automatic punishment regardless of the circumstances.
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
29,741 posts, read 47,547,485 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf View Post
Precisely. Which means the act of consensual sex between a man and an unmarried woman is not a sin.

The man paid a fine (what the dowry would have been) if he didn't marry the woman and if she was a virgin. If she wasn't a virgin, there was no payment, so as to prevent the father from making a harlot out of his daughter.

He was stoned only if the woman was married (which meant they both were stoned), or if he refused to pay which amounted to the sin of theivery. The crime was that he stole the virtue of the woman and didn't pay or didn't marry her.

The next scenario was they would get married. Does this sound like a punishment? If God commands that they enter into a holy union blessed by Him, doesn't this show that they didn't commit a sin? Only disobeying the command to marry would be the sin.

Ergo, the act of a man and an unmarried woman doesn't have an inherent label of sin attached. Which means the lust for an unmarried woman also doesn't have this sin label either. For if the act is sinless, so is the thought of the act.

Please show in scripture where the mere act of consensual sex between a man and an unmarried woman demanded an automatic punishment regardless of the circumstances.
'Adultery' is all about violating property rights.

Having sex with a female whom you have not purchased.

Through out the Bible a man can purchase as many wives as he wishes, and at times having multiple wives is commanded of men.

Only when he has sex with another man's wife is it adultery.

Which is why Adultery is used so often by the Author comparing it to Idolatry.

We are God's. should we seek to go after any other god or group of gods it is idolatry, and easily compared to adultery

Any time that men seek after another god, or has happens so often today [in most of mainstream 'Christianity'] when they seek after groups of multiple gods, it is adulterous behavior, 'Idolatry'.
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:40 PM
 
178 posts, read 341,642 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
'Adultery' is all about violating property rights.

Having sex with a female whom you have not purchased.

Through out the Bible a man can purchase as many wives as he wishes, and at times having multiple wives is commanded of men.

Only when he has sex with another man's wife is it adultery.

Which is why Adultery is used so often by the Author comparing it to Idolatry.

We are God's. should we seek to go after any other god or group of gods it is idolatry, and easily compared to adultery

Any time that men seek after another god, or has happens so often today [in most of mainstream 'Christianity'] when they seek after groups of multiple gods, it is adulterous behavior, 'Idolatry'.
We are in agreement. Although, I would substitute the crude words of commerce with other descriptions. For example..

Adultery is all about violating the Holy union of another's marriage.

Having sex with a female you have not committed to.

Not that your version is wrong, but it may sound crude to others who may not put this language into the context of when it was written. They mean the same in spirit, but some may find it offensive. So, as not to turn away some who might be reading this by using certain crude words, I feel the same spirit of the law can be explained differently.
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Under a bridge.
3,196 posts, read 4,719,979 times
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God hates women. Just read the bible. He hates gay people too. and philistines...
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,553,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacknblue View Post
Because she's not your wife?
Does that mean one must own the mountains before he can find joy in looking at them?
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