Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:09 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,843,837 times
Reputation: 3478

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshineann View Post
Absolutely Alpha.

May i ask a question with the women who was non-Jew...When jesus said "It is not right to take the childrens bread and give it to the dogs." And she replied..."Yes, Lord, but even the doges eat the crumbs that fall from their masters table."
What is this actually saying....I'm confused a little with this... (sorry, im just a learning vessel)
We are all those same vessels....and I won't sit here and try and explain all the assumed nuances that passage may or may not contain. I can just tell you what it means to me. (I would hope if someone wants to do otherwise they would start their own thread, but we will see.)

To me I see a couple of things:

1-Knowing this encounter would be read for eternity, Jesus set out to teach you and me something.

2-She calls on Jesus(22) and He sits quietly(23) apparently waiting to see how His own disciples will respond to her(23). Questions: How do I respond to people? Is Christ sitting quetly waiting to see how I respond to those placed in my path?

3-The disciples try and get Jesus to send her away. (I do the same exact thing!)

4-AND I THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT (at least to me, right now)-The woman before Jesus has her faith tested by the King of Kings by Him telling her, "I'm only here for God's chosen."

Her faith prevails even after Jesus persists in telling her that what He supposedly is here for is NOT HER.

WHAT?!?!?

This is a troubling passage and I really commend you for asking about it. It shows that you truly are reading and you're not just glossing over the portions that don't sit right. You're on the path to clearer understanding! Make sure you pray for wisdom and discernment every time you open your bible!

Remember, at this point in time Jews truly were the ONLY people that were God's people. So what He said was true.

But what He shows this woman (and you and I) is that faith in Him gives us the same access to His salvation as it does the Jews.

Jesus and the Cross of Calvary level the playing field.

There's room at the King's table for even a dog like Alpha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Seriously, what an awesome God we serve!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-26-2009, 11:26 AM
 
Location: In God's country
1,059 posts, read 2,685,000 times
Reputation: 621
maybe this shouldnt be discussed in this particular thread...and i understand what your telling me. But "take the childrens bread" and "crumbs from their masters table" I guess im not following well enough...because then Jesus says to her "Woman, you have great faith"
thank you for trying to help me Alpha..i appreciate it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 12:52 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,252,463 times
Reputation: 973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
4-AND I THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT (at least to me, right now)-The woman before Jesus has her faith tested by the King of Kings by Him telling her, "I'm only here for God's chosen."
...and what struck me in this chapter was the humanness of the disciples, and their small faith at times, in contrast with this woman's faith. First of all, they wanted the woman sent away, rather than asking Jesus to heal her. And then Jesus went along and did many miracles, and when they ran out of food, even tho in the previous chapter it tells how Jesus had fed the 5000, the disciples said "where are we going to find food?"

But, even though they had alot to learn (we all do) yet they were willing to follow, and humble enough to be taught. That's all Jesus required of them. He was so patient...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,821,366 times
Reputation: 1114
Bigotry and bias has been a man made religious tool since religion came about. (look how the denominations are treated even today).
The disciple's shunned what their heritage and tradition had trained them to shun, as Jesus showed them that what you do unto the least... you have done unto me.

godspeed,

freedom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 09:44 PM
 
1,932 posts, read 4,778,117 times
Reputation: 1246
Default Chapters 13, 14 & 15

I apologize terribly for falling behind. I hope not to confuse the conversation/study. However, I did promise to take part in this study and I am committed to keeping my vow. I pondered not responding to the chapters that have already been discussed and just picking up where you all are at right now. Then I thought, maybe God can use my words to reach someone.

Ch 13:
I pray I'm not twisting the Word, but my thoughts on this chapter came after putting some parts before others.

To me it was Jesus telling us that until He comes again, evil will exist right along side of good. They will not be separated until His return. And at His return, evil and evil doers will be cast into the firery furnace so that good may shine and reflect the glory of God. Believers, Christ followers, must endure until the end of the age. Why is there pain and suffering in the world? Because there is evil in the world. Why is evil in the world? Because sin is in the world. Ultimately, God is allowing this but will end all pain and suffering upon His return. This is the promise we accept when we follow Christ.

However, there will be those followers who fall away and Jesus explains why they fall away. It is because of the evil that pulls at them and wears them down. It is because they don't have strong roots to withstand the attack. It is because they allow themselves to be decieved by the ultimate deciever -- satan, the enemy. This helped to open my eyes and see non-believers in a new light. There are many non-believers on this forum who fall into two categories of the seed parable - path and rocks.

Jesus goes on to explain that non-believers cannot understand the kingdom of God. Those with ears cannot hear and those with eyes cannot see. Their hearts have become hard as they remain in their state of rebellion.

To me, this chapter ends with a warning via the story of his return to his homeland, that lack of faith, one's unbelief, can block the gifts He has for us. This chapter has opened my eyes and my heart. Praise His holy name.

Ch 14:

Jesus feeds the multitudes = God will provide. A recurring theme that can't be stressed enough, I dare say.

Taking your eyes off Jesus = you will sink on your own. No matter how dire the situation, all things are possible through Jesus. Another theme that can't be stressed enough. We think we can fix our circumstances all on our own. Our pride takes over and it's "I did this" and "I did that". "I" can do nothing! Anything "I" does without "Him" is filthy rags and not worthy! Only with Him and through Him are we anything at all. This is the difference, I believe, between righteous and self-righteous. Lord, may I learn this lesson well.

Be careful of the promises you make and the friends that you keep. It's a slow fade (to borrow from Casting Crowns) into the darkness that is prowling to consume us. I must be vigilant to keep my feet on the proper path and not be swayed by peers or what others say. What does God say? Am I keeping to His will?

Finally, some ponderings. I could read into the passages what seems to be something that is happening today all around me. It's the 'What can Jesus do for me' attitude. Here's my thoughts. Jesus hears about John and withdraws for solitude and prayer. I believe to mourn John's death. But still, crowds gather for Jesus. Is it to offer sympathy or to see what they can do for Him? Maybe a few, but we're not told that. It seems the crowds want Jesus to do for them. Teach and heal and even feed them.

Again, after Jesus dismissed the crowd and the disciples have started off without him, Jesus withdraws to pray. Perhaps to recoup? Is he tired? Is he weary? Does he have the sense that he is only an "object" to the masses? Yet, he continues on. He knows that for the many who gathered on the opposite side of the lake upon his arrival ... again possilby many with the self-centered "what can I get out of it" attitude ... if even a few get the true meaning and believe and accept that is his purpose. He remains in the will of God the Father. Have I?

What is my heart's attitude towards Jesus.. what I can get from Him or what I can do to serve Him?

Ch 15:

What you say shows the true condition of your heart. Words that leave your lips cannot be put back. What is the condition of my heart? What words have I said that should not have been spoken? Lord, forgive me.

The woman of great faith. Jesus is the gift for everyone, not just the Israelites. Children = jews; Dogs = gentiles; Bread = Jesus. Jesus tests her faith by stating the children's bread should not be given to dogs, should it? The faithful woman replies, yes it can because the dogs can eat the crumbs from their master's (Jews') table. This is the correct answer, as Jesus tells her her faith is rewarded and her daughter is healed. Her faith was strong because she was willing to accept just a few crumbs rather than an enitre loaf.

Disciples of little (but growing) faith shown by Jesus again feeding the multitude (as he had just done a few days prior) starting with meager rations despite the disciples' questions and doubt. How much faith have I? Am I satisfied with a few meager crumbs?

Thanks to God for his word. I have gained new insights and undertsanding. Thank you, Jesus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-26-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,805,239 times
Reputation: 634
Matt 15:11 I love this verse, it clearly makes a seperation between dietery laws and moral laws.

"It is not what enters the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, that defiles the man."

This leads right into the rest of the chapter, especially 18-20;

"But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornication, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."

I know others may get something else from these verses but I see one aspect as giving more relevance to the original intent of the dietery laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: In God's country
1,059 posts, read 2,685,000 times
Reputation: 621
Chapter 16

I think what stands out to me is in 16:24 "If people want to follow me, they must give up the things they want." ....It is an every day challenge on some things for me in order to follow Christ. Sometimes i get caught up in the "i wish i had this" or "i wish i had that" the material things in the world. Especially when we are trying to teach our children not to put worldly things above God. That the true meaning of having everything...is having God and his love and making God happy by doing what is right by him. Not who has a bigger house, or a nicer car, or someones name labeled on our behinds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2009, 10:00 AM
 
Location: God's Country
22,996 posts, read 34,258,882 times
Reputation: 31627
Good thoughts there sunshine! It's easy to get caught up in worldly things. But the peace and joy He gives us is priceless.
I think it's interesting in verses 1-4 the Pharisees and Sadduces were trying to test Jesus to show them miraculous signs, people are still doing that today when there are signs around them they are missing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: In God's country
1,059 posts, read 2,685,000 times
Reputation: 621
I think because we forget to "be still" as a dear friend of mine once said to me. I think thats how we miss the signs.
Also...i dont think until today that i understood in 6: "Be Careful, Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and the Sadducees." I think thats also another key point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-27-2009, 10:11 AM
 
7,784 posts, read 14,843,837 times
Reputation: 3478
No one has told me if I am ahead....I don't think I am but I haven't gone and checked the whole thread......

is mostly everyone on 15 or 16?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top