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Explain this to me please...why does God choosing certain people to be saved and certain people to be damned for eternity, give Him glory, any more so than Him making salvation available to all who believe?
That's "double predestination" which I do not agree with because God's will is for everyone to be saved
I am not sure what you are after? - it sounds more like a philisophicsl or theological question that may or may not be answerable by Scripture but one does come to mind - Acts 2:23.
22"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge (a bit redundant)
I believe in Predestination. God elects or predestines people to salvation. The elect are all believers
(Romans 8:29–30) "29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. "
(Ephesians 1:5) 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
So we don't have free will. He has already decided who gets to live in the celestial hot tub forever.
If he already knows who he likes best why all the BS?
So we don't have free will. He has already decided who gets to live in the celestial hot tub forever.
If he already knows who he likes best why all the BS?
Your definition of free will is not my definition of free will. Do you have free will not to sin? Can you not sin? if not then you are bound by sin therefore it is our nature, if it is our nature then as the bible says, sin makes us spiritually dead, if we are spiritually dead then how can the dead do anything let alone choose God? Are we free? Are we free to choose God?
Your definition of free will is not my definition of free will. Do you have free will not to sin? Can you not sin? if not then you are bound by sin therefore it is our nature, if it is our nature then as the bible says, sin makes us spiritually dead, if we are spiritually dead then how can the dead do anything let alone choose God? Are we free? Are we free to choose God?
God's will is for all to be saved yet he predestined only an elect few to be saved...is that what you're saying? I'm confused.
Yup and all for His glory, that doesn't mean He has not provided the gifts for others as well.
02-17-2009, 07:03 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist
22"Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 23this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge (a bit redundant)
This is seriously why we cant't get anywhere with you - do you even read my posts with any sense of wanting to understand someone else position? You ignore the points made by me and then restate your own as if that settles it. In one of your post you said that I said that you said that predestination isjustification or regeneration. I did not say that - please qoute people acurately. It is a BIG difference to say that as opposed to predestination is untojustification or regeneration. Aslo you attribute to me a classic Armenian framework and then procede to argue against it - classic strawman.
Furthermore, your highlighted portion and color coded emphasis is flat out wrong. It is not redundant as if the plan and the foreknowledge are the same thing said in a different way. You fail in Greek grammar. These are two seperate referents not indentical ones. You make it soaund as if Luke was saying ...the predetermined plan that is the foreknowledge of God... He did not say nor intend to say such a thing. Let this sink deep into your heart my brother - ponder this fact before you write again.
There are really only three semantical options [for this verse] for this type of contruction - a TSKS contruction. I will post some thoughts later if need be.
Seriously read the post with better comprehension of what your brothers in Christ are trying to set forth - in doing so you do them the respect you wish to have and you create an environment that is less ambigious.
This is seriously why we cant't get anywhere with you - do you even read my posts with any sense of wanting to understand someone else position? You ignore the points made by me and then restate your own as if that settles it. In one of your post you said that I said that you said that predestination isjustification or regeneration. I did not say that - please qoute people acurately. It is a BIG difference to say that as opposed to predestination is untojustification or regeneration. Aslo you attribute to me a classic Armenian framework and then procede to argue against it - classic strawman.
Furthermore, your highlighted portion and color coded emphasis is flat out wrong. It is not redundant as if the plan and the foreknowledge are the same thing said in a different way. You fail in Greek grammar. These are two seperate referents not indentical ones. You make it soaund as if Luke was saying ...the predetermined plan that is the foreknowledge of God... He did not say nor intend to say such a thing. Let this sink deep into your heart my brother - ponder this fact before you write again.
There are really only three semantical options [for this verse] for this type of contruction - a TSKS contruction. I will post some thoughts later if need be.
Seriously read the post with better comprehension of what your brothers in Christ are trying to set forth - in doing so you do them the respect you wish to have and you create an environment that is less ambigious.
Sorry that I am doing. I will admit I am having trouble debating you because I cannot grasp your interpretation of predestination- I just don't see it. So I say we beg to disagree and part with this thread in brothers in Christ
God Bless
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