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Old 02-18-2009, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
I think it is disgusting, what he did.

I'm a so-called "gay" and have never had promiscuous sex, abused any drug, or lead a false life.

So much for Christianity.
You probably did not have a pastor as a dad, nor attended Oral Roberts U and had only training to be in the 'born agin' clergy.
His idea of the sin of his urges probably drove him to take these sporadic escapades. I think sin is a way Christianity traps people, making them to feel eternally guilty just for being humans, and thereby eternally bound to the church, asking for forgiveness for life.

I know gays as you describe yourself - more moral than most Christians because you try to be clear with yourself and deal with situations individually as they arise.

The Haggard types are haunted and repressed and have that internal pressure cooker internally. It is much better to be clear and out in the open with your relationships.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
No he wasn't, if anything he was a moderate mega church Pastor who I never paid much attention to till the scandal broke

Homosexuality is a sin, plain and simple. He cheated on his wife and was taking crystal meth as a Pastor of a church. Yes he had much to apologize for and should be in silent repenting
What I don't get are self proclaimed Christians who neglect the word of God and buy into the lies of the world. I am black, there is nothing I can do to be black. I just am. If a gay man is walking down the street, how would I know unless he does something to show he is gay, ergo choice

Jesus said, if you lust after a women then you are committing adultery. So if I am internally attracted to another woman other than my wife then I have nothing to apologize for? Man we are reading two different bibles!

The church should have booted him the first time and tried not to cover it up, they should NOT have given him a severance package and IT WASN'T THE CHURCH THAT DID ANYTHING TO HIS FAMILY. IT WAS TED HAGGARD! HE BROUGHT THIS ON HIMSELF AND HIS FAMILY BECAUSE OF HIS ARROGANCE, SELFISHNESS AND PRIDE.The family outcast themselves. Would you want to continually go to a church where your father who was the Pastor secret is out?

I wish the Apostle Paul was here and dealt with the situation. Would love to see the response to what he does from Christians with weak discernment.
You know, sometimes it makes me wonder what people are running from when they protest forgiveness of this 'sin' so strongly.

Last edited by goldengrain; 02-18-2009 at 11:10 PM..
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
Hi GoldenGrain,
You're a very compassionate person.

I've not been following Haggard's story, but I'm glad to hear that his church restored him to fellowship.
Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass,
you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness;
each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.

Galatians 6:1
After having told the church at Corinth to expel a person with similarities to Haggard (1Cor 5:12,13),
Paul's next letter to the Corinthians told them now to restore that person.
Sufficient for such a one is this punishment which was inflicted by the majority,
so that on the contrary you should rather forgive and comfort him,
otherwise such a one might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow.

2Corinthians 2:6 & 7
I often protest against Christianity because all I hear of in the media are those who would persecute others for common human failings.
I rarely hear such as you.
Thank you.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
We all struggle Alpha. I have a VICIOUS, VICIOUS temper I deal with, in my unsaved days I hit anything, objects that is, even though I struggle with my temper I am no where near what I use to be, that is a sign of growing as a Christian because I am always aware. I use to frequent strip clubs also, loved it! dated strippers and at times still get tempted to go. How many strip clubs have I visited since I became a Christian, ZERO! I am not saying, I have it licked because I don't. I constantly fight the urge but I know what it entails for me to go. lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, coveting basically breaking all the commandments. Through the help of the Holy Spirit and common sense this is one sin I can control. I got rid of those friends, I let my wife know where I am at all times, I look the other way when I know one is near etc......There are just some sins that you really have no excuse for as Haggard's sins.

Jesus clearly says, if you keep on sinning you are of the devil. Why are we excusing Haggard?, this is not out of retribution or self righteousness but extreme love for his salvation not to mention our precious gospel and an example we send for future Haggards in or out of the pulpit.
Ah-ha.
This is why you sound like a pressure cooker about to explode.
Try a therapist or some kind. Someone with training in these problems.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richio View Post
Not directed to any one person:
Personally, I think it would be gossip to be discussing this man's life and his relationship with God - if it weren't for the fact that he was in the spotlight before his "mistakes" were known.
Now he cannot escape our scrutiny.

If he has repented, his church would know of it and they took him back into fellowship.
Why should we not let them handle their own matter?
God knows his heart and Haggard is cognizant of that.

The original post was by a non-Christian, and yet quite merciful in attitude.

Even when I think I'm doing OK, I'm in need of God's mercy and grace.
As such, I'll let God decide what is what in the case of Haggard.
I think we are each born differently, with different genes, different family situation. Only God knows the degree of temptation each of us faces. Only God knows how we may struggle. It is not for any of us to point to another in judgment. We all make distinctions as we go through our lives, but none of us is able to see the complete picture.

I am thankful that I do not face the struggles that Haggard did/does. Obviously, some people are driven and face obsessions that others of us will never know.

Let us be grateful for the peace that we have.
And pray that Haggard will also know peace.

Last edited by goldengrain; 02-18-2009 at 11:11 PM..
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post

We do pray for him because we love him which is why we are so hard on him- I would expect no different for me
. Did he sound poor and unhappy on Larry King? We can't go on blaming Satan for everything. He sinned just like the rest of us but we must repent.
Have you considered Islam?
Many of its followers seem to have similar attitudes.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:55 PM
 
25,170 posts, read 32,358,536 times
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I like how you keep using the great phrase " pressure cooker"

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Ah-ha.
This is why you sound like a pressure cooker about to explode.
Try a therapist or some kind. Someone with training in these problems.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
Nothing can help Ted, not Christianity, and not psychiatry, neither have a good track record for helping people actually improve.
Well, that's the problem. He still has attractions to men.
Don't people understand that he does not WANT this? He would, if he could change his life, be 'acceptable'.

After all he has gone through. It would be much easier for him to lie again and say Jesus got rid of those feelings, but he cannot.
He cannot, because he is honest.
Honest in spite of those who may hate him for it.
Who of us can say that he has gone through that struggle?
Can you imagine how great the urge is for the fellow, after all of this, to have to admit that truth?
Those feelings are not coming from choice.
Most of us never have those feelings.
Those who do are born with them.
They should not be treated as outcasts. You can repent from now until doomsday and you will still get those inclinations unless perhaps your age and your hormones change.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:12 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 8,655,759 times
Reputation: 8464
Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyguy View Post
I like how you keep using the great phrase " pressure cooker"
Yeah. I just noticed it myself.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Arizona
777 posts, read 869,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
I think we are each born differently, with different genes, different family situation. Only God knows the degree of temptation each of us faces. Only God knows how we may struggle. It is not for any of us to point to another in judgment. We all make distinctions as we go through our lives, but none of us is able to see the complete picture.

I am thankful that I do not face the struggles that Haggard did/does. Obviously, some people are driven and face obsessions that others of us will never know.

Let us be grateful for the peace that we have.
And pray that Haggard will also know peace.
Thank you for your previous kind words.

Yes, we all face varieties of struggle, but we have one thing in common; none of us are perfect.
Try not to let the imperfection of any person obstruct your considering the perfection of God.
Churchianity is a game that some play, but Jesus is real.

I used to be driven away from the Lord by the hypocrisy I looked for.
When I realized that He might be actually be real, the only reasonable course was to accept His gift.
Jesus has given me a new life here on earth, but more importantly eternal life with God.

It's worth seeking Him and one doesn't need a church to talk to Him.
Repentance is not about slavery to a church; it is about acknowledging our own imperfection in the eyes of God.
...Realizing that Jesus has already made a way for us to stand in God's presence, if we but receive it through faith and trust.

I can tell you that it doesn't take a huge amount of faith, but a sincere heart.
About 25 years ago, I made a choice to follow Him; it was the best choice I've ever made.
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