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Hi Vessif, no one is saying that those who don't believe in the Trinity are claiming to know everything about God. I don't read that from anything that anyone has shared here. What God has revealed, He has revealed and from I understand with God's help, is that the Father is greater than Jesus (Jesus said it) , gave all authority to Jesus in heaven and on earth, is revealed through Jesus who is the Word made flesh. Jesus Himself said that the Father is greater than He is, didn't He? He also said that whoever had seen Him has seen the Father. This means to me that Jesus revealed everything we need to know about the Father as He is the exact image or representation of the Father. We "see" , come to know God through His Son. I don't regard anyone to believes in the Trinity to be an enemy, and I hope that they don't regard me as an enemy because I believe that the Father is greater than Jesus, that Jesus is the exact image/representation of the Father, and that the Father is absolute Deity. We both believe that Jesus is the only Way to the Father and He died to reconcile us to God. God bless.
Nicely put Shana.
vessif- I HAVE been judged by trinity believers who tell me that I am not a Christian, or insinuate that I am too carnal to understand. I believe exactly what the bible says, Jesus is God's son...he died for my sins...he left a model for us to follow...and it is only by means of him that I can approach God...etc. I don't consider Jesus a mere prophet or a mere man. I believe that he taught that his father was God.
It is great to have a discussion, exchanging scriptural evidence one way or another.
Thank you, Shawn. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree and respect our differences on this. Btw Jesus did say the Father was greater, didn't He? Just asking... God bless.
Yes, Jesus did say that The Father was greater.
greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority.
Thus, the only way we can know for certain what Jesus meant by saying that the Father was greater than him is by reading his statement in its immediate context. A careful look at the entire chapter of 14 shows the Lord Jesus claiming to have all of God's omni-attributes:
"And I WILL DO whatever you ask IN MY NAME, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask ME for anything in my name, AND I WILL DO IT." John 14:13-14
Christ is capable of personally answering all prayers that are directed to him or are addressed in his name. The only way that Christ can both hear and answer all these prayers is if he is both omniscient and omnipotent!
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21
Christ says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time.
"Jesus replied, ‘If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.’" John 14:23
The following is another example of Jesus claiming to be equal with the Father:
“‘My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” John 10:27-33
Thus, as long as Christ remained on earth in the form and position of a humble slave, enduring persecution, insults, injury, and subsequently the shame of the cross, the Father would be greater in position and honor. Once Christ returns to heaven to be seated alongside his Father, he would no longer be in that state of humiliation. He would share, once again, that same divine glory and sovereign authority that he had with the Father before he had come to the earth as a man:
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was... Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24
Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature
Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. Jesus has always been over and ranked above the angels, but He was made a little lower than the angels while he was here on earth walking as a man. He took upon himself a lower form than the angles, while on earth, but was still above them. When He returned to Heaven, He went back to His position as God.
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
These are just some of the things that I believe. I believe that The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are equal. You are right that we can agree to disagree.
Thank you so much for you post. I hoped you enjoyed your weekend and I have a long week a head of me. I'll be gone for about a week, so everyone enjoy the thread. Take care.
Last edited by Miss Shawn_2828; 02-22-2009 at 10:30 PM..
greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority.
Thus, the only way we can know for certain what Jesus meant by saying that the Father was greater than him is by reading his statement in its immediate context. A careful look at the entire chapter of 14 shows the Lord Jesus claiming to have all of God's omni-attributes:
"And I WILL DO whatever you ask IN MY NAME, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask ME for anything in my name, AND I WILL DO IT." John 14:13-14
Christ is capable of personally answering all prayers that are directed to him or are addressed in his name. The only way that Christ can both hear and answer all these prayers is if he is both omniscient and omnipotent!
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21
Christ says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time.
"Jesus replied, ‘If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.’" John 14:23
The following is another example of Jesus claiming to be equal with the Father:
“‘My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” John 10:27-33
Thus, as long as Christ remained on earth in the form and position of a humble slave, enduring persecution, insults, injury, and subsequently the shame of the cross, the Father would be greater in position and honor. Once Christ returns to heaven to be seated alongside his Father, he would no longer be in that state of humiliation. He would share, once again, that same divine glory and sovereign authority that he had with the Father before he had come to the earth as a man:
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was... Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24
Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature
These are just some of the things that I believe. I believe that The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are equal. You are right that we can agree to disagree.
Thank you so much for you post. I hoped you enjoyed your weekend and I have a long week a head of me. I'll be gone for about a week, so everyone enjoy the thread. Take care.
Jesus has the title of God, and existed in the form of God, and did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped.
Correct; in the incarnation, Christ divested Himself of his divine attributes in order to live an authentic human life. In His essence He was still God, but functionally, He limited Himself for that purpose.
Quote:
He is the image of the invisible God. An image, or copy, must have an original, is the way I understand this with the help of God. He is the word of God, made flesh. God bless.
Yes, in His humanity, Christ is the image of the invisible God. To use a crude analogy, if one could stamp God's immaterial essence into a material substance, it would look like Jesus. This is true because of the hypostatic union: God became man without ceasing to be God. Humanity and divinity were perfectly joined in Christ. He is truly the God-man.
You miss one very key factor in all of this: the incarnation. When God assumed humanity in the person of Christ, He voluntarily limited Himself in a functional sense. Or as Paul says,
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (Phil. 2:6-7)
John 1 makes it absolutely clear that there was never a time when Christ, as He existed before the incarnation as God Himself, was not.
Jesus and the Father are distinct, but the same deity that was incarnate in the person of Christ was the same deity of the Father.
You miss one very key factor in all of this: the incarnation. When God assumed humanity in the person of Christ, He voluntarily limited Himself in a functional sense. Or as Paul says,
Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (Phil. 2:6-7)
John 1 makes it absolutely clear that there was never a time when Christ, as He existed before the incarnation as God Himself, was not.
Jesus and the Father are distinct, but the same deity that was incarnate in the person of Christ was the same deity of the Father.
Phl. 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the *form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
A good rule to follow when looking for the meaning of a Greek and or Hebrew word is "first usagae." Here is where the word 'form' is first used in the N.T.
Mk. 16;10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.
11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.
12 After that he appeared in another *form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.
13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.
14 ¶ Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
So now the question begs to be answered It says he appeared to them in another form. Correct? And yet He was still Christ in this 'other form.' Right? So it follows that if He took on a human form, while here on the earth, He was still the same person He had been in heaven, or still God, only in another form i.e. human flesh or God in the flesh.
Plp. 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is *Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
First time the word Lord is used in the N.T.
Mt 1:20[SIZE=5] [/SIZE]But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority.
Thus, the only way we can know for certain what Jesus meant by saying that the Father was greater than him is by reading his statement in its immediate context. A careful look at the entire chapter of 14 shows the Lord Jesus claiming to have all of God's omni-attributes:
"And I WILL DO whatever you ask IN MY NAME, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask ME for anything in my name, AND I WILL DO IT." John 14:13-14
Christ is capable of personally answering all prayers that are directed to him or are addressed in his name. The only way that Christ can both hear and answer all these prayers is if he is both omniscient and omnipotent!
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21
Christ says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time.
"Jesus replied, ‘If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.’" John 14:23
The following is another example of Jesus claiming to be equal with the Father:
“‘My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” John 10:27-33
Thus, as long as Christ remained on earth in the form and position of a humble slave, enduring persecution, insults, injury, and subsequently the shame of the cross, the Father would be greater in position and honor. Once Christ returns to heaven to be seated alongside his Father, he would no longer be in that state of humiliation. He would share, once again, that same divine glory and sovereign authority that he had with the Father before he had come to the earth as a man:
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was... Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24
Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature
Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. Jesus has always been over and ranked above the angels, but He was made a little lower than the angels while he was here on earth walking as a man. He took upon himself a lower form than the angles, while on earth, but was still above them. When He returned to Heaven, He went back to His position as God.
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
These are just some of the things that I believe. I believe that The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are equal. You are right that we can agree to disagree.
Thank you so much for you post. I hoped you enjoyed your weekend and I have a long week a head of me. I'll be gone for about a week, so everyone enjoy the thread. Take care.
AMEN!!!! Great post! You did an excellent job of explaining how Jesus is God.
greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority.
Thus, the only way we can know for certain what Jesus meant by saying that the Father was greater than him is by reading his statement in its immediate context. A careful look at the entire chapter of 14 shows the Lord Jesus claiming to have all of God's omni-attributes:
"And I WILL DO whatever you ask IN MY NAME, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask ME for anything in my name, AND I WILL DO IT." John 14:13-14
Hi Shawn, thank you very much for sharing. I believe that the Father is greater in all things because everything that Jesus had and did originated, was given to Him by the Father. He said that all authority in heaven and on earth had been given to Him. God the Father gave Jesus this authority. We may ask Jesus for anything in His name and He will do it because the Father gave Jesus this authority. Jesus will do whatever is asked in His name to bring glory to the Father, not to Himself.
Quote:
Christ is capable of personally answering all prayers that are directed to him or are addressed in his name. The only way that Christ can both hear and answer all these prayers is if he is both omniscient and omnipotent!
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21
Christ says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time.
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21
Christ says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time.
Jesus replied, ‘If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.’" John 14:23
The Father again has given Jesus all authority in heaven and on earth. Jesus has the power to be in all, to live in all because Father gave it to Him. Jesus Himself said that He could do nothing of Himself and this tells me that all that Jesus does and is able to do comes from the Father who is the source.
Quote:
The following is another example of Jesus claiming to be equal with the Father:
“‘My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” John 10:27-33
The Father has given Jesus the sheep and the Father is greater than all. The Father has also given Jesus all power and authority. Jesus and the Father are one in purpose and mission. All that Jesus does glorifies the Father. He reveals the Father, points us to the Father. Even when He had to go to the cross, He submitted to the Father's will for Him because He and the Father were united.
In that same chapter, verses 34-38, Jesus says:
34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, I am the Son of God'?
37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."
Quote:
Thus, as long as Christ remained on earth in the form and position of a humble slave, enduring persecution, insults, injury, and subsequently the shame of the cross, the Father would be greater in position and honor. Once Christ returns to heaven to be seated alongside his Father, he would no longer be in that state of humiliation. He would share, once again, that same divine glory and sovereign authority that he had with the Father before he had come to the earth as a man:
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was... Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24
Again, the Father has given Jesus this glory. The Father is the source. When Jesus delivers the kingdom to the Father, He will be subject to the Father. (1 Corinthians 15)
Quote:
Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature
Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. Jesus has always been over and ranked above the angels, but He was made a little lower than the angels while he was here on earth walking as a man. He took upon himself a lower form than the angles, while on earth, but was still above them. When He returned to Heaven, He went back to His position as God.
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
Jesus was the Word of God made flesh. All things came into being through Him. The Word, the expression of God comes forth from the invisible God, just as our words come forth from us and are expressions of who we are. The words come from a source. Without the source, there is no word. The Father is the source and the Word came from that source.
1 Corinthians 8:
4Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one;
5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- 6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;
Again, I believe that Jesus is God relatively speaking, but the Father is Supreme because all comes from or originates from Him. Therefore I understand that the Father is greater in all aspects, not only in rank. Jesus was more than a man. He is the mediator between God and mankind, the exact image of the invisible God, He is how the invisible God reveals Himself to us. God is His message. He is showing us who the invisible God is. This is His purpose as God's Word. Do we want to know who the Father, the invisible God is? We look at Jesus. He always points to the Father. And all glory that Jesus has comes from His Father.
Quote:
These are just some of the things that I believe. I believe that The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are equal. You are right that we can agree to disagree.
Thank you so much for you post. I hoped you enjoyed your weekend and I have a long week a head of me. I'll be gone for about a week, so everyone enjoy the thread. Take care.
Thank you again for sharing and for taking the time to answer my question, Shawn. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Thank you also for the respectful manner in which you shared. Have a wonderful week. God 's blessings. Take care.
Quote:
Nicely put Shana.
vessif- I HAVE been judged by trinity believers who tell me that I am not a Christian, or insinuate that I am too carnal to understand. I believe exactly what the bible says, Jesus is God's son...he died for my sins...he left a model for us to follow...and it is only by means of him that I can approach God...etc. I don't consider Jesus a mere prophet or a mere man. I believe that he taught that his father was God.
It is great to have a discussion, exchanging scriptural evidence one way or another.
Thank you, beeveenh. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 02-23-2009 at 10:21 PM..
greater" (Greek - meizon) does not necessarily imply one who is greater in nature or essence. It can refer to someone or something being greater in position and/or authority.
Thus, the only way we can know for certain what Jesus meant by saying that the Father was greater than him is by reading his statement in its immediate context. A careful look at the entire chapter of 14 shows the Lord Jesus claiming to have all of God's omni-attributes:
"And I WILL DO whatever you ask IN MY NAME, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask ME for anything in my name, AND I WILL DO IT." John 14:13-14
Christ is capable of personally answering all prayers that are directed to him or are addressed in his name. The only way that Christ can both hear and answer all these prayers is if he is both omniscient and omnipotent!
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, AND I AM IN YOU. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him." John 14:20-21
Christ says that he is IN all the disciples, an impossible claim if he was only a man, or even an angel. But since Jesus is God, and since God is omnipresent, it therefore makes perfect sense for Christ to say he is able to dwell in all the believers at the same time.
"Jesus replied, ‘If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and WE will come to him and make OUR home with him.’" John 14:23
The following is another example of Jesus claiming to be equal with the Father:
“‘My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’” John 10:27-33
Thus, as long as Christ remained on earth in the form and position of a humble slave, enduring persecution, insults, injury, and subsequently the shame of the cross, the Father would be greater in position and honor. Once Christ returns to heaven to be seated alongside his Father, he would no longer be in that state of humiliation. He would share, once again, that same divine glory and sovereign authority that he had with the Father before he had come to the earth as a man:
"Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was... Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." John 17:5, 24
Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature
Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. Jesus has always been over and ranked above the angels, but He was made a little lower than the angels while he was here on earth walking as a man. He took upon himself a lower form than the angles, while on earth, but was still above them. When He returned to Heaven, He went back to His position as God.
Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.
So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).
These are just some of the things that I believe. I believe that The Father, Son, Holy Spirit are equal. You are right that we can agree to disagree.
Thank you so much for you post. I hoped you enjoyed your weekend and I have a long week a head of me. I'll be gone for about a week, so everyone enjoy the thread. Take care.
Exactly. "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Those who "ya but" (that Jesus claimed to be God) are completely misunderstanding Jesus. The religious leaders knew exactly what Jesus was claiming. This was the only reason they were insisting to Pilate to put guards around the tomb. Jesus was accused of blasphemy. He was going to raise himself (so he claimed), only which God himself was able to do.
Jesus says "My sheep listen to my voice"
Jesus said to Pilate "Everyone on the side of truth listens to me"
The truth is Jesus raised himself from the dead. Those who are on the side of truth believe Jesus is God.
Exactly. "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Those who "ya but" (that Jesus claimed to be God) are completely misunderstanding Jesus. The religious leaders knew exactly what Jesus was claiming. This was the only reason they were insisting to Pilate to put guards around the tomb. Jesus was accused of blasphemy. He was going to raise himself (so he claimed), only which God himself was able to do.
Jesus says "My sheep listen to my voice"
Jesus said to Pilate "Everyone on the side of truth listens to me"
The truth is Jesus raised himself from the dead. Those who are on the side of truth believe Jesus is God
Hi, Jesus said:
34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS'?
35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, I am the Son of God'?
37"If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."
Jesus knew who He was. Also Jesus had the authority to lay down His life because the Father gave Him this authority.
John 10
I am the good shepherd, and I know my [sheep], and am known by mine,
15according as the Father doth know me, and I know the Father, and my life I lay down for the sheep,
16and other sheep I have that are not of this fold, these also it behoveth me to bring, and my voice they will hear, and there shall become one flock -- one shepherd.
17`Because of this doth the Father love me, because I lay down my life, that again I may take it; 18no one doth take it from me, but I lay it down of myself; authority I have to lay it down, and authority I have again to take it; this command I received from my Father.
There are sheep that belong to Jesus who may not believe in the Trinity. They are also on the side of the truth. God bless.
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God bless.
