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Unread 03-06-2009, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 742,383 times
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and on to chapter 8? i believe?
I've not taken the time to go through it again...
but I think this is where we are...
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Unread 03-06-2009, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Well I guess a slow diliberate sharing of one anothers views is getting harder and harder and the debate portion just wants to override it all. I can understand the concerns on both sides, but if someone is trully faithful they will not fall away if their little interpritation turns out to be flawed. I was a post tribber at one time, then became a pretribber, now I am just a faithful follower of Christ preparing for any scenerio. We are purchasing extra can goods, weapons, ammo, clothes, linens, first aide. If the pretrib happens then the stuff will be there for others to use but if the post tribhappens we will need it all. I believe it would be interesting to see the tribulation period unfold, but it wouldnt hurt my feeling if I wasnt here to see it. I would gladly lose my head proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ, but I will not go without a fight. I have a wife and four children to take care of as well, so I will fight to defend them.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in the middle
600 posts, read 779,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Well I guess a slow diliberate sharing of one anothers views is getting harder and harder and the debate portion just wants to override it all. I can understand the concerns on both sides, but if someone is trully faithful they will not fall away if their little interpritation turns out to be flawed. I was a post tribber at one time, then became a pretribber, now I am just a faithful follower of Christ preparing for any scenerio. We are purchasing extra can goods, weapons, ammo, clothes, linens, first aide. If the pretrib happens then the stuff will be there for others to use but if the post tribhappens we will need it all. I believe it would be interesting to see the tribulation period unfold, but it wouldnt hurt my feeling if I wasnt here to see it. I would gladly lose my head proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ, but I will not go without a fight. I have a wife and four children to take care of as well, so I will fight to defend them.
Robin, I agree with everything you said here. We are planning on doing the same thing with stocking up on food, ect. As you said, if we don't need to use those things, they will be here for someone else after we are gone.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 04:39 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,946,192 times
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Are we studying the Revelation or not? There is another thread about reading through Matthew. I have followed it a little and have disagreed at times but did not enter in. They simply wanted to go through it and not be bogged down. Some of these same people are now on this thread, getting it off track.

I have backed off because of this.

Preterist
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Unread 03-06-2009, 05:41 PM
 
1,101 posts, read 697,732 times
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chapter 7
Chapter 7 is a parentitical chapter. It is telling what will be happening on the earth not in heaven.

v. 1 four angels holding back the 4 winds...why? These 4 winds mark the end of this age. When this happens they come for all directions directed at one point so that it will be by natural causes that the 'end' comes.

v. 2 another angel with the seal of the living God or the mark of God. The seal is for the elect of God to have knowledge of the events of the end times.

The sealing of the 144,000

This completes the one hundred and forty four thousand [144,000] of God's elect, sealed in their minds of the events of the end times.

The tribe of Joseph is also called "Ephraim", the Scriptures tell us in Genesis 48:8-27.

This Scripture also tells us how the birthright of Abraham, was passed through Isaac, to Jacob [Israel], then on to Joseph's son Ephraim.

The omitting of the tribe of Dan here is because of the sins of the people of that tribe, as recorded in I Kings 12:25-28. It was Dan that drew the other tribes of the old "House of Israel" into idolatry.

The great multitude: the people who have died in the Lord's work, and have gone to be with Him. It is my father who died thirty years age, and my uncle Jack who has passed on; It's my grandmother Hattie, who passed on when I was a young child, and every other saint of God, who lived a life on this earth, and died and went to be with the Lord; from any century in this earth age. Those are the ones John sees standing before the Lord in their white robes, washed in the blood of the Lamb, and their sins made white as snow.
these great numbers of people, came from all races and nations and languages on the face of the earth, and each and every one of them have been saved.

Revelation 7:13 "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?"

Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir [My Lord], thou knowest. and he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Notice where they came from, the great tribulation. They came out of the tribulation and "washed their own robes" in the blood of the Lamb.

Nobody washed the robes for them. They were made white by the blood of the Lamb by their repentance and confession in Jesus Christ.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,191 posts, read 2,839,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Are we studying the Revelation or not? There is another thread about reading through Matthew. I have followed it a little and have disagreed at times but did not enter in. They simply wanted to go through it and not be bogged down. Some of these same people are now on this thread, getting it off track.

I have backed off because of this.

Preterist
I originally started the thread to get differing views without debate. I had you in mind for certain parts. Debates can start after chapter 22, but I trully want all views and you are the main one with your views and as you can see from some of our posts we do not see your view in the chapters. Please help us to understand your view so perhaps we can find a deeper respect for them even if we do not agree.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 06:25 PM
 
1,101 posts, read 697,732 times
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When we saw the opening of the seals they were not in chronological order.

Why do I say this? The first seal, the white horse is the arrival of the A/C. and is actually the 5th trump

Re 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Chapter 8
v.1 seventh seal/silence in heaven about the space of half an hour." The other 1/2 of this hour will be completed in chapter 11 and is the hour of tempation; the first part of that hour.

This 'hour' is when the A/C (another name for him is the son of perdition from Rev., 17) is on the earth.

This is why I believe the 'saints' will be on the earth during this time because the actual length of God's wrath is a very short time, called the *hour of temptation.

I personally believe that is what Christ meant when He said this:

Mt 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, *could ye not watch with me one hour ?

Several other passages that speak of this same hour:

Re 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Re 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Re 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Re 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

Re 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

v. 2 the 7 angels given their trumpets...

v. 3 another angel

This makes a total of eight angels standing before the throne of God, that are the main actors in this chapter. Seven of the angels hold trumpets, and one will hold the golden censer. The eighth angel is important, for he will use the incense of the golden censer to be offered with all the saints prayers on the altar of God, that is before the throne of God. These prayers are offered to God as part of God's promise to fulfill all prayers that are within God's will.

v. 5, "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake."

What is this fire? God is a consuming fire; it's God's glory. God's glory and response to these prayers.

v. 6, angels prepare to sound...heaven is silent as the trumpets are about to sound...

v.7, The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth [and the third part of the earth was burnt up]: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

Think of this not in a physical sense but in a spiritual sense.

I Peter 1:24, 25 "For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. the grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you."

v.8 great mountain cast into the sea.

We know from chapter 17 that waters in the book represents people:

Re 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The great mountain is a great nation, remember the sea are the peoples of the world. This will be discussed later, however when a great nation burns and is cast into the sea, it ceases to be governed as a nation, but falls under a world wide system where boundries don't exist.

v. 9 The sea are peoples, and nations; and the here death is a spiritual death.

Revelation 8:10 "And a third angel sounded, and there fell a great *star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp [torch], and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;"

Remember what was said about stars being symbolic.

This is the sounding of the third trumpet of God.

Remember Luke 10:18, "And I beheld Satan as lightening fall from heaven." Satan is called "the morning star" in Isaiah 14:12-16. This falling star is the devil, the "son of perdition".

Revelation 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

When Satan arrives darkness will appear; and the darkening in the heavens will be exactly as you expect it to be when Jesus Christ returns to earth. The universe will even announce both comings. Notice, though, Satan will cause only one third of the effect, whereas our Lord's return will be complete and total.

v.13,In the original text the word "Angel" should read "Eagle"; for the word in the Greek reads "Aetos". Why is this ? Their is an urgency to this eagle's cry of "Woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth", by reason of the voices from the other trumpets. This is why the last trumpets are called the "woe trumpets". This is not woe to those in heaven, but woe to those who are living on this earth for the great hour that hour of temptation is coming on the earth.

Last edited by mshipmate; 03-06-2009 at 07:06 PM..
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Unread 03-06-2009, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Central US
852 posts, read 742,383 times
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okay...
Chapter 8
May all remember...these are my thoughts...and just simply that...I claim no surity and am open to anyone elses thoughts.

During the 7th seal there was an hour of silence for about half an hour....
(makes me think something big is coming...perhaps something sad and that has been a lot of thought about?)

Seven angels are given seven trumpets
Another angel, possesses a golden censer was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints which were sent up to God
...the angel filled it with fire after it was hurled to the earth...upon which time there came thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightening and an earhtquake.

Thunder and lightening often mark the beginnings of God's awsomeness and the alert that something big is to come in Revelation.

in vs. 6 the seven angels who had the trumpets prepared to sound them

The 1st angel sounded his trumpet...
There was hair and fire mixed with blood...it was hurled to the earth and 1/3rd of the earth was burned up, 1/3 rd of the trees were burned up and ALL of the green grass was burned up.
(I find this sounds similar in what happened in Eze 38:22)

The 2nd trumpet
something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea and 1/3 of the sea turned to blood. 1/3rd of animals in the sea were destroyed as well as 1/3 of the ships.
(I think I remember a plague of blood also in Exodus)

The 3rd trumpet
a great star fell from the sky...named Wormwood. 1/3 of the water turned bitter and many people died from the bitter water.
(when I looked up wormwood I found that is a bitter plant)

The 4th trumpet
a 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars was struck with darkness. 1/3 of both the day and night were without light.

vs.13 an eagle cried out " Woe,Woe,Woe to the inhabitants of the earth because of the next three trumpets that were to come.

Now...I think all of these trumpets sound literal...I know many who think they are symbolic...but they are all very easy to imagine in a literal sense.
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Unread 03-06-2009, 09:02 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 1,946,192 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I originally started the thread to get differing views without debate. I had you in mind for certain parts. Debates can start after chapter 22, but I trully want all views and you are the main one with your views and as you can see from some of our posts we do not see your view in the chapters. Please help us to understand your view so perhaps we can find a deeper respect for them even if we do not agree.
RobinD69: I will do my best to catch up. My computer has been on and off since Monday (Time-Warner issue!), but I have been going over the chapters and making notes and have been reading the posts by those who are following the format of this thread. I will try to cover two chapters until I catch up. I think this is a great thread, RobinD69. Thanks for starting it.

Preterist
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Unread 03-07-2009, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
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(1). How many of you believe the rider of the first horse is the Anti-Christ?
(2). How many of you believe that this first rider is the Anti-Christ, and he's here, (as in here on earth) but yet not R-E-V-E-A-L-E-D?

Here's a quick quiz:

(1). Satan is the Father of all lies. True or False

(2). He's sometimes known as the Great Deceiver. True or False

(3). Remember this conflict of old, the war between good and evil? Where did it begin?

A. On Earth
B. In Church
C. In Heaven
D. In the White House
E. Or all of the above


Open book.


Last edited by Betsey Lane; 03-07-2009 at 01:49 PM..
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