U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Happy Thanksgiving Day!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-03-2009, 01:08 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 1,749,278 times
Reputation: 368

Advertisements

The Religion of Abraham Lincoln

Many may know that Abraham Lincoln was one of our most deeply religious Presidents. Very few know how well he knew the scriptures-- even better than some of the most prominent clergy of his day. Almost no one knows that he believed in the doctrine of universal salvation.

Here are a few excerpts taken from "The Almost Chosen People" by William J. Wolf (Doubleday & Company Inc, 1959).

"One of Lincoln's associates, Mentor Graham, tells of Lincoln: 'He took the passage, `As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive,' and followed up with the proposition that whatever the breach or injury of Adam's transgressions to the human race was, which no doubt was very great, was made just and right by the atonement of Christ.'" (page 47)

Universal Salvation

"...Lincoln wrote an essay about 1833 on predestinated universal salvation in criticism of the orthodox doctrine of endless punishment. It is also consistent with the evidence that in 1850, Lincoln, through the reading of his pastor's The Christian's Defense and his own wrestling with the problem, became convinced intellectually of the validity of the biblical revelation. Lincoln's conviction that God would restore the whole of creation as the outcome of Christ's atonement would have been in itself a bar to membership in the Springfield church he attended." (pages 103-104)

"Another associate, Isaac Cogdal, tells of a discussion on religion in Lincoln's office in 1859: 'Lincoln expressed himself in about these words: He did not nor could not believe in the endless punishment of any one of the human race. He understood punishment for sin to be a Bible doctrine; that the punishment was parental in its object, aim, and design, and intended for the good of the offender; hence it must cease when justice is satisfied. He added that all that was lost by the transgression of Adam was made good by the atonement: all that was lost by the fall was made good by the sacrifice.'" (page 104)

"The second statement was one dictated by Jonathan Harnett of Pleasant Plains, describing a theological discussion in 1858 in Lincoln's office. 'Lincoln covered more ground in a few words than he could in a week, and closed with the restitution of all things to God, as the doctrine taught in the scriptures, and if anyone was left in doubt in regard to his belief in the atonement of Christ and the final salvation of all men, he removed those doubts in a few questions he answered and propounded to others. After expressing himself, some one or two took exceptions to his position, and he asked a few questions that cornered his interrogators and left no room to doubt or question his soundness on the atonement of Christ, and salvation finally of all men. He did not pretend to know just when that event would be consummated, but that it would be the ultimate result, that Christ must reign supreme, high over all. The Saviour of all; and the supreme Ruler, he could not be with one out of the fold; all must come in, with his understanding of the doctrine taught in the scriptures.'" (pages 105-106)

The Creed of Abraham Lincoln in His Own Words:

"I believe in God, the Almighty Ruler of Nations, our great and good and merciful Maker, our Father in heaven, who notes the fall of a sparrow, and numbers the hairs of our heads.

I believe in His eternal truth and justice.

I recognize the sublime truth announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history that those nations only are blest whose God is the Lord.

I believe that it is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, and to invoke the influence of His Holy Spirit; to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon.

I believe that it is meet and right to recognize and confess the presence of the Almighty Father equally in our triumphs and in those sorrows which we may justly fear are a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins to the needful end of our reformation.

I believe that the Bible is the best gift which God has ever given to men. All the good from the Saviour of the world is communicated to us through this book.

I believe the will of God prevails. Without Him all human reliance is vain. Without the assistance of His divine Being, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail.

Being a humble instrument in the hands of our Heavenly Father, I desire that all my works and acts may be according to His will; and that it may be so, I give thanks to the Almighty, and seek His aid.

I have a solemn oath registered in heaven to finish the work I am in, in full view of my responsibility to my God, with malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right as God gives me to see the right. Commending those who love me to His care, as I hope in their prayers they will commend me, I look through the help of God to a joyous meeting with many loved ones gone before."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-03-2009, 01:19 PM
 
Location: NC
11,621 posts, read 9,017,193 times
Reputation: 1274
Thank you for sharing, Birdy. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-03-2009, 02:31 PM
 
12,660 posts, read 8,324,988 times
Reputation: 4742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy_56 View Post
The Religion of Abraham Lincoln

Many may know that Abraham Lincoln was one of our most deeply religious Presidents. Very few know how well he knew the scriptures-- even better than some of the most prominent clergy of his day. Almost no one knows that he believed in the doctrine of universal salvation.

Here are a few excerpts taken from "The Almost Chosen People" by William J. Wolf (Doubleday & Company Inc, 1959).

"One of Lincoln's associates, Mentor Graham, tells of Lincoln: 'He took the passage, `As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive,' and followed up with the proposition that whatever the breach or injury of Adam's transgressions to the human race was, which no doubt was very great, was made just and right by the atonement of Christ.'" (page 47)

Universal Salvation

"...Lincoln wrote an essay about 1833 on predestinated universal salvation in criticism of the orthodox doctrine of endless punishment. It is also consistent with the evidence that in 1850, Lincoln, through the reading of his pastor's The Christian's Defense and his own wrestling with the problem, became convinced intellectually of the validity of the biblical revelation. Lincoln's conviction that God would restore the whole of creation as the outcome of Christ's atonement would have been in itself a bar to membership in the Springfield church he attended." (pages 103-104)

"Another associate, Isaac Cogdal, tells of a discussion on religion in Lincoln's office in 1859: 'Lincoln expressed himself in about these words: He did not nor could not believe in the endless punishment of any one of the human race. He understood punishment for sin to be a Bible doctrine; that the punishment was parental in its object, aim, and design, and intended for the good of the offender; hence it must cease when justice is satisfied. He added that all that was lost by the transgression of Adam was made good by the atonement: all that was lost by the fall was made good by the sacrifice.'" (page 104)

"The second statement was one dictated by Jonathan Harnett of Pleasant Plains, describing a theological discussion in 1858 in Lincoln's office. 'Lincoln covered more ground in a few words than he could in a week, and closed with the restitution of all things to God, as the doctrine taught in the scriptures, and if anyone was left in doubt in regard to his belief in the atonement of Christ and the final salvation of all men, he removed those doubts in a few questions he answered and propounded to others. After expressing himself, some one or two took exceptions to his position, and he asked a few questions that cornered his interrogators and left no room to doubt or question his soundness on the atonement of Christ, and salvation finally of all men. He did not pretend to know just when that event would be consummated, but that it would be the ultimate result, that Christ must reign supreme, high over all. The Saviour of all; and the supreme Ruler, he could not be with one out of the fold; all must come in, with his understanding of the doctrine taught in the scriptures.'" (pages 105-106)

The Creed of Abraham Lincoln in His Own Words:

"I believe in God, the Almighty Ruler of Nations, our great and good and merciful Maker, our Father in heaven, who notes the fall of a sparrow, and numbers the hairs of our heads.

I believe in His eternal truth and justice.

I recognize the sublime truth announced in the Holy Scriptures and proven by all history that those nations only are blest whose God is the Lord.

I believe that it is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, and to invoke the influence of His Holy Spirit; to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon.

I believe that it is meet and right to recognize and confess the presence of the Almighty Father equally in our triumphs and in those sorrows which we may justly fear are a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins to the needful end of our reformation.

I believe that the Bible is the best gift which God has ever given to men. All the good from the Saviour of the world is communicated to us through this book.

I believe the will of God prevails. Without Him all human reliance is vain. Without the assistance of His divine Being, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail.

Being a humble instrument in the hands of our Heavenly Father, I desire that all my works and acts may be according to His will; and that it may be so, I give thanks to the Almighty, and seek His aid.

I have a solemn oath registered in heaven to finish the work I am in, in full view of my responsibility to my God, with malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right as God gives me to see the right. Commending those who love me to His care, as I hope in their prayers they will commend me, I look through the help of God to a joyous meeting with many loved ones gone before."
Hi Birdy_56,


I wish he were president today. We sure could use the Lincoln greenback today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2009, 07:12 AM
 
1,686 posts, read 1,749,278 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi Birdy_56,

I wish he were president today. We sure could use the Lincoln greenback today.


Hi there Gwynedd----We could be enhanced with the whole 16th Presidents philosophy!

Quote:
I destroy my enemies by making them my friends.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: South Dakota
733 posts, read 2,829,883 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
I wish he were president today. We sure could use the Lincoln greenback today.
Our current President is a member of the United Church of Christ. You might find the UCC Statement of Faith interesting to compare to Lincoln's statement:

We believe in God, the Eternal Spirit,
who is made known to us in Jesus our brother,
and to whose deeds we testify:

God calls the worlds into being,
creates humankind in the divine image,
and sets before us the ways of life and death.

God seeks in holy love to save all people from aimlessness and sin.

God judges all humanity and all nations by that will of righteousness
declared through prophets and apostles.

In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Lord,
God has come to us
and shared our common lot,
conquering sin and death
and reconciling the whole creation to its Creator.

God bestows upon us the Holy Spirit,
creating and renewing the church of Jesus Christ,
binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races.

God calls us into the church
to accept the cost and joy of discipleship,
to be servants in the service of the whole human family,
to proclaim the gospel to all the world
and resist the powers of evil,
to share in Christ's baptism and eat at his table,
to join him in his passion and victory.

God promises to all who trust in the gospel
forgiveness of sins and fullness of grace,
courage in the struggle for justice and peace,
the presence of the Holy Spirit in trial and rejoicing,
and eternal life in that kingdom which has no end.

Blessing and honor, glory and power be unto God.

Amen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2009, 12:01 PM
 
12,660 posts, read 8,324,988 times
Reputation: 4742
Quote:
Originally Posted by windtimber View Post
Our current President is a member of the United Church of Christ. You might find the UCC Statement of Faith interesting to compare to Lincoln's statement:

We believe in God, the Eternal Spirit,
who is made known to us in Jesus our brother,
and to whose deeds we testify:

God calls the worlds into being,
creates humankind in the divine image,
and sets before us the ways of life and death.

God seeks in holy love to save all people from aimlessness and sin.

God judges all humanity and all nations by that will of righteousness
declared through prophets and apostles.

In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Lord,
God has come to us
and shared our common lot,
conquering sin and death
and reconciling the whole creation to its Creator.

God bestows upon us the Holy Spirit,
creating and renewing the church of Jesus Christ,
binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races.

God calls us into the church
to accept the cost and joy of discipleship,
to be servants in the service of the whole human family,
to proclaim the gospel to all the world
and resist the powers of evil,
to share in Christ's baptism and eat at his table,
to join him in his passion and victory.

God promises to all who trust in the gospel
forgiveness of sins and fullness of grace,
courage in the struggle for justice and peace,
the presence of the Holy Spirit in trial and rejoicing,
and eternal life in that kingdom which has no end.

Blessing and honor, glory and power be unto God.

Amen.

Hi windtimber,

Unfortunately Obama is nothing like Lincoln. Obama has continued the policy of Bush, thus Obama is much like Bush, of giving money to the financial system. Lincoln on the other hand rejected it and thus created interest free green backs
Abraham Lincoln and his Treasury Secretary, Salmon P. Chase (Chase Bank later named after him) went to the New York bankers "and applied for loans to the Government to carry on the [Civil] war; the bankers replying, 'Well, war is a hazardous business, but we can let you have it [the loans] at from 24 percent to 36 percent.'" (Dr. R.E. Search)


Financiers were already busy giving money to the south. So Lincoln just realized he had a productive economy and taxing power. Why pay money to bakers who create nothing? So he circulated interest free money.
From the London Times:
If this mischievous financial policy [greenbacks]... should become endurated down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debts and be without debts. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the world. The brains and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe. [qtd. in Search's book]
Freedom Network - williambova.net


Green backs unlike federal reserve notes were directly issued by the treasury and were not issued(created out of thin air actually) at interest from a bank. All reserve notes are borrowed from banks at interest. This little detail costs our society trillions of dollars a year and keeps us perpetually insolvent since all money represents the principle and all debt is the principle + interest. We are stuck with perpetual growing debt or defaults. Your pay check BTW is paid with someone else's bank credit they pay interest on. Thats why Americans are always going into debt or in foreclosure. With no debt there is no money. Our money is someone's debt Obama is where he is because he serves the banks. He has done nothing but serve the banks. Lincoln not only freed black slaves, he freed everyone from slavery. His contribution to freedom for all peoples is vastly understated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2009, 06:14 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
733 posts, read 2,829,883 times
Reputation: 642
Eh? Sorry, I thought this was a religion board, not an economics discussion. We can visit about monetary policy someplace else, OK?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2009, 07:08 PM
 
Location: NC
11,621 posts, read 9,017,193 times
Reputation: 1274
Quote:
I believe the will of God prevails. Without Him all human reliance is vain. Without the assistance of His divine Being, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail.

Being a humble instrument in the hands of our Heavenly Father, I desire that all my works and acts may be according to His will; and that it may be so, I give thanks to the Almighty, and seek His aid.
Amen. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-04-2009, 10:10 PM
 
178 posts, read 255,812 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by windtimber View Post
Eh? Sorry, I thought this was a religion board, not an economics discussion. We can visit about monetary policy someplace else, OK?
"All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." - John Adams

Mark 11

15 And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;

16 And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.

17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.


The nature of money and who controls it is a topic that most people either ignore or don't spend much time on.

That's just how the modern money changers (federal reserve) like it.

Learn about the Federal Reserve Act, the bankruptcy of the US, the Banker's Holiday in 1933, the "voluntary compliance" contract implemented by FDR (New Deal) to offer up the people's substance (labor and property) as chattel against the national debt.

This is a relevant topic to believers and one that could be the difference between being a slave with priviledges and benefits from the federal government or being a sovereign with God-given unalienable rights. Do you serve, or are you being served by the subordinate government? People are supreme, not the state. The power resides in the people, not the government or any of its franchises. The created cannot be superior to the creator. Do you think most people understand this? Does anyone know the reason we have a private foreign banking cartel in control of our currency and credit who is not subject to audit or scrutiny unless it consents?

If you don't know who you are and who you serve, it will be assumed you serve and are subject to the federal government which has its own rules and regulations which are, more often then not, repugnant to the true supreme law of the land, God's Holy Word in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ of Nazareth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-05-2009, 10:04 AM
 
1,571 posts, read 2,694,921 times
Reputation: 497
Lincoln denied he was a Christian, though, and he was never a member of any church. In the context of his time, his beliefs would be somewhat "New Age".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:51 PM.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top