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Old 03-09-2009, 02:54 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,384,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
In Noah's day the wicked were 'raptured' away.

Salt and light has been changed to fear and lies.
Actually that is an excellent point and in complete harmony with this scripture.

Proverbs 2:21-22 - "Today's New International Translation"
Quote:
"For the upright will live in the land [earth], and the blameless will remain in it;

but the wicked will be cut off from the land [earth], and the unfaithfull will be torn from it."
This most likely is why Jesus made the comparison between the days of Noah, as you mentioned, and the turning of attention once again to our planet Earth and world of mankind alienated from God at the situation of Armageddon. God's final war to defeat the wicked and cleanse the Earth.

Matthew 24:37 - "Young's Literal Translation"
Quote:
"as the days of Noah -- so shall be also the presence of the Son of Man."
The apostle Peter likewise made the same connection of Noah's day and the destruction of ungodly mankind.
2 Peter 3:1-7 - "Young's Literal Translation"

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: 2 Peter 3:1-7;


So the pattern of rapturing away the "wicked" so to speak as mentioned by you and in harmony with what the scriptures do actually say on this matter is correct.

 
Old 03-09-2009, 03:02 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,384,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
2nd coming is way over my head. but i have seen a huge change since i was born here,
they have gotten just plain evil and proud of it.
There's no arguement here on that. The world we live in get's further and further away from anything godly as time goes on. Indeed if there is a God, he has to step in soon. Even our planet's environment is on the brink of failing and most as those in Noah's day do not even take any note of these danger signs to be taken seriously.
 
Old 03-09-2009, 03:30 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,384,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquila View Post
BTW, I find it astonishing that you can't comment on the multitude of different interpretations held by thousands of different Protestant denominations. But I really have no interest in debating this anyway. I'm convinced of the validity and truth found in the Catholic/Orthodox churches.
To be honest on this subject here, I have never found that the Protestant Reformation was even any type of reform at all. It was more of a power struggle revolt, as opposed to anything actually being reformed. They kept all of the major doctrines and the Ecclesiastical Hierarchical structure which which never mirrored the simple biblical pattern set out in the New Testament for the organizing of the Christian congregation in the first place. In Luther's German translation, he did in fact find that several long believed doctrinal dogmas were completely false. When pointing these out to several fellow revolutionary Priests and German leaders, they rejected his findings, since they were actually only interested in establishing their own power structure and really did'nt want to reform much of any belief.

For example, most of Luther's scriptural studies and discoovered truths from his translation and what the bible actually said as opposed to what was taught, were put together in sort of a doctrinal creed by a Greek Scholar friend of Luther named, Melanchthon, called "The Augsburg Confession" and they then presented to Emporer Charles V and other German Prince co-rulers and other leaders along with Catholic representatives in hopes that instead of a rebellion, the church would reform and internally cleanse itself. It was flatly rejected and they only came away holding a bag of comprimises. Hence the reformation was anything but. It was strictly a revolt.
 
Old 03-09-2009, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,593,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
To be honest on this subject here, I have never found that the Protestant Reformation was even any type of reform at all. It was more of a power struggle revolt, as opposed to anything actually being reformed. They kept all of the major doctrines and the Ecclesiastical Hierarchical structure which which never mirrored the simple biblical pattern set out in the New Testament for the organizing of the Christian congregation in the first place. In Luther's German translation, he did in fact find that several long believed doctrinal dogmas were completely false. When pointing these out to several fellow revolutionary Priests and German leaders, they rejected his findings, since they were actually only interested in establishing their own power structure and really did'nt want to reform much of any belief.

For example, most of Luther's scriptural studies and discoovered truths from his translation and what the bible actually said as opposed to what was taught, were put together in sort of a doctrinal creed by a Greek Scholar friend of Luther named, Melanchthon, called "The Augsburg Confession" and they then presented to Emporer Charles V and other German Prince co-rulers and other leaders along with Catholic representatives in hopes that instead of a rebellion, the church would reform and internally cleanse itself. It was flatly rejected and they only came away holding a bag of comprimises. Hence the reformation was anything but. It was strictly a revolt.
It is hard to acknowledge for many but the sheer brutality of some of the reformers (including Luther) shows that even though they did point out the non-scriptural-ness of many RC practices their lives were far far away from the Spirit of Christ.
 
Old 03-09-2009, 04:33 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
It is hard to acknowledge for many but the sheer brutality of some of the reformers (including Luther) shows that even though they did point out the non-scriptural-ness of many RC practices their lives were far far away from the Spirit of Christ.
True, in fact , I seem to remember reading where they were equally if not more so prolithic with their own version of Protestant inquisitions, than even the Catholic church. This seems to be the problem of not following Jesus command to stay separate from the world and going to bed with political leaders. Failure to do this was one of the basic fundamental reasons that just with the 40+ million evangelicals in Germany alone, they supported a man like Adolf Hitler (considered the promised Nordic Messiah of Mythology) for no other reason than giving them back their German Nationistic pride and bringing them out of the Great Depression much earlier than any other countries through the industrial and production building of the Nazi Death Machine. Can you imagine how different things could have been had the Clergy done their job on all sides and prevented that from happening ???
 
Old 03-09-2009, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,593,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
True, in fact , I seem to remember reading where they were equally if not more so prolithic with their own version of Protestant inquisitions, than even the Catholic church. This seems to be the problem of not following Jesus command to stay separate from the world and going to bed with political leaders. Failure to do this was one of the basic fundamental reasons that just with the 40+ million evangelicals in Germany alone, they supported a man like Adolf Hitler (considered the promised Nordic Messiah of Mythology) for no other reason than giving them back their German Nationistic pride and bringing them out of the Great Depression much earlier than any other countries through the industrial and production building of the Nazi Death Machine. Can you imagine how different things could have been had the Clergy done their job on all sides and prevented that from happening ???
Not to mention that Luther laid the foundation for the holocaust through his antisemitic ideas/writings.

Wow.
 
Old 03-09-2009, 05:05 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,384,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Not to mention that Luther laid the foundation for the holocaust through his antisemitic ideas/writings.

Wow.
Yes I remember that. However, that was'nt his original position. In the beginning he supported the Jews and was against what he perceived as the Catholic anti-semitic treatment of Jews, taking this stance in hopes that the Jews would convert. When Jews refused and did'nt to convert, then he himself became an anti-semitic clergyman.

Okay, well off to school.

Sorry to hit the offtopic
 
Old 03-09-2009, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,003,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
There's no arguement here on that. The world we live in get's further and further away from anything godly as time goes on. Indeed if there is a God, he has to step in soon. Even our planet's environment is on the brink of failing and most as those in Noah's day do not even take any note of these danger signs to be taken seriously.
We did this to ourselves. God won't step in. We have to correct it. And, the planet is still very young and it's still "settling" so we'll have this kind of stuff until we reach Light and Life or Heaven on Earth. The only way to do that is to correct our ancestors' mistakes and learn to love one another, be accepting of each others' values and beliefs and overcome hatred. Our negativity has a great impact on earth. How we treat Her is how she is treating us. This world will still be here in a billion years, even longer.
 
Old 03-09-2009, 05:38 AM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,499,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
True, in fact , I seem to remember reading where they were equally if not more so prolithic with their own version of Protestant inquisitions, than even the Catholic church. This seems to be the problem of not following Jesus command to stay separate from the world and going to bed with political leaders. Failure to do this was one of the basic fundamental reasons that just with the 40+ million evangelicals in Germany alone, they supported a man like Adolf Hitler (considered the promised Nordic Messiah of Mythology) for no other reason than giving them back their German Nationistic pride and bringing them out of the Great Depression much earlier than any other countries through the industrial and production building of the Nazi Death Machine. Can you imagine how different things could have been had the Clergy done their job on all sides and prevented that from happening ???

sad having to say this, the clergy, like everyone else had long before lost the mental frame to gather the wits necessary for RESISTANCE and CHANGE.
 
Old 03-09-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 9,629,983 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
What is your barometer of judging who is speaking truth and who is not?
The Bible, of course.


Quote:
Which path actually ends abortion instead of just talking about it? Mine

Which path actually ends war instead of just talking about it? Mine.

Which path actually ends poverty instead of just talking about it? Herman's down at the bakery .... and mine.
So how's that working out for you?

Quote:
Do you ever step back and listen to yourself? 'the cover of false doctrine encroaching" (meaning any that aren't your doctrine) is "when somebody is crying unity, love, and acceptance."

What he is saying is you should shout "divison, hatred, and rejection".
No hatred at all. His point is if ALL you hear are the cry of unity, love,and acceptance, the false doctrine is encroaching. There is no mention of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Quote:
Carolina - This is a very sad, empty human being who must fill the void with a doctrine that reflects his emptiness. He is crying out for help through this rant and fights the ways to peace while proclaiming the Prince of Peace as his messiah. Understand that people come to this life to experience certain things so that they can someday exist in the glorious presence of God. Sometimes those things are homosexuality or abusing a spouse. But they came to experience that dichotomy from the perfect union with God and they must be granted that freedom so they can work beyond any desire for it.
Ah, so we're reduced to moral relativism--is that it? There is no such thing as evil, wicked, or even sin, right?

Quote:
The evidence is overwhelmingly against your worldview. Overwhelmingly.
Prove it.

Quote:
If I reach Heaven and am scolded for following a path of Love and unity with all life and acceptance of all for the path they choose to walk during this life, then I will walk right out of there and dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight. I have no need for a hell of pearly gates pretending to call itself heaven. I might as well get the real deal.
Be careful what you wish for...
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