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Old 03-20-2009, 09:41 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,577,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
May I ask a question? Do you have life insurance? Automobile insurance? Home insurance? For what purpose do you have all these insurances? Is it simply because you are required to have them? Or, you hope you never need them, but you want them in place if a disaster strikes?

Well, that's the "houses" of which I speak, both "spiritual" and "physical". Here's another way of putting it: Would'nt you rather have it and don't need it, rather than need it and don't have it?

It's all about believing is'nt it? Your choice.
You hit it, it's because I have to. Nope, no life insurance since I know I'm going to die one day why should someone profit off of it? Are you saying I should believe in god or whatever "just in case" there is a heaven or pearly gates/St. Peter?
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,588,571 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
You hit it, it's because I have to. Nope, no life insurance since I know I'm going to die one day why should someone profit off of it? Are you saying I should believe in god or whatever "just in case" there is a heaven or pearly gates/St. Peter?
NO, I'm saying love the Lord your God with all your heart because He is God, because He first loved you, and because He died in place of you, and that His desire is that no one perishes, none, not even you.


Think about it at least.

Betsey
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,687,923 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
NO, I'm saying love the Lord your God with all your heart because He is God, because He first loved you, and because He died in place of you, and that His desire is that no one perishes, none, not even you.


Think about it at least.

Betsey
You have this message after all.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:52 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,097,317 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Yes, Preterist, I do have a substantive comment about your post, here it goes: first, NO ONE KNOWS THE HOUR, NO ONE! Secondly, I'm sure you know that by now, then again, YOU DO preach that all things have been fulfilled already, so............ ???

Third, Major Dame along with plenty others simply issued a "heads up". Take it for what you want. Fourth, remember Noah of old? Not so looney after all was he? Should they have listened to someone like him? Or would you prefer us to listen to YOU?

"Come fly with us"..........you WISH!! Fulfill YOUR assignment, but I'll pass.

Betsey
No, Betsey Lane--I have never asked people to listen to me but to listen to the Scriptures. Why do you and others take such store in what men like Major Dames say?

I will say again. Jesus did not know WHILE IN THE FLESH the day or the hour. But He knew the generation, Betsey Lane. "THIS GENERATION will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Why do you refuse to acknowledge plain statements by our Lord? Once Jesus ascended into heaven and received the glory that He had with the Father before the world began, He knew ALL THINGS. And He shared those all things that were given to Him by the Father with JOHN who wrote them down in the Revelation which concerns those things that were in John's day to shortly take place because the time of fulfillment was then NEAR. All of the content of the Revelation deals with Jesus' "this generation!"

Betsey Lane, I know you far better than you think. I was you! I went out of my way to find nuts like Major Dames because I LIKED what they were teaching. They taught what I WANTED to believe. I mean no unkindness, Betsey Lane, as I truly believe you love the Lord Jesus, but the truths are in God's Word and not in modern-day "prophets." Do they really support the Word of God, Betsey Lane, or do they uphold what you choose to believe? That is what we must all ask ourselves in light of these "last-days" charlatans!

Please! What saith the Scriptures?

Blessings in Christ, Preterist
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,588,571 times
Reputation: 939
But do YOU not see, that you have gone WAY and I mean WAAYYYY beyond the "charlatans" to proclaim that ALL THINGS has been fulfilled already? Do YOU not see the SPECK in your OWN eyes Preterist?


Those same eyes, do they not cry? Do you not feel pain? Sorrow? Do people NOT die everyday? Please, what saith the LORD HIMSELF, yes......the scriptures?

And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be anymore pain: FOR THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY. (REVELATION 21:4)

NO, not here yet, but soon coming.............................FINAL ANSWER!!

PS: The signs are all around you, don't need to go out of my way to find nuts like Major Dames, but hey, like I said.......they called Noah alot more than just that! That poor "nut" Noah. And by the way Preterist, with all due respect, and I certainly don't mean any unkindness either, if you knew me like you "think" you do, and was me at one point, YOU SHOULD HAVE STAYED GROUNDED IN THE WORDS OF GOD!! ROOTED!! BUILT ON THE ROCK! Instead of sprouting that foolishness, yes FOOLISHNESS, that "All things have been fulfilled already" and "God's Kingdom has already come" therefore, that this is it for us, we are hopeless, no coming of our Lord Jesus, REALLY, R-E-A-L-L-Y?


You want to know something else what saith the scriptures? Read Proverbs 12:15 and 2 peter 2:22.



Your sister in Christ, BETSEY LANE
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:27 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,097,317 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
But do YOU not see, that you have gone WAY and I mean WAAYYYY beyond the "charlatans" to proclaim that ALL THINGS has been fulfilled already? Do YOU not see the SPECK in your OWN eyes Preterist?


Those same eyes, do they not cry? Do you not feel pain? Sorrow? Do people NOT die everyday? Please, what saith the LORD HIMSELF, yes......the scriptures?

And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be anymore pain: FOR THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY. (REVELATION 21:4)

NO, not here yet, but soon coming.............................FINAL ANSWER!!

PS: The signs are all around you, don't need to go out of my way to find nuts like Major Dames, but hey, like I said.......they called Noah alot more than just that! That poor "nut" Noah. And by the way Preterist, with all due respect, and I certainly don't mean any unkindness either, if you knew me like you "think" you do, and was me at one point, YOU SHOULD HAVE STAYED GROUNDED IN THE WORDS OF GOD!! ROOTED!! BUILT ON THE ROCK! Instead of sprouting that foolishness, yes FOOLISHNESS, that "All things have been fulfilled already" and "God's Kingdom has already come" therefore, that this is it for us, we are hopeless, no coming of our Lord Jesus, REALLY, R-E-A-L-L-Y?


You want to know something else what saith the scriptures? Read Proverbs 12:15 and 2 peter 2:22.



Your sister in Christ, BETSEY LANE
Dear Betsey Lane: I understand your strong emotions on these issues. I really do! We all have them.

But I have done none other than present the words of Scripture, Betsey Lane. Have I not done so? What do the following passages clearly say?

Jesus, as He sent out the Twelve, told them the things that they should expect as they went to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 10). Tell me where it is that I am so wrong in taking Jesus' words here in their plain, common sense? Do you not agree that Jesus told THEM that THEY would suffer those things? Did Jesus then not say to THEM: "YOU will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes." What does that plainly say, Betsey Lane? How does that someone become fulfilled in us when it was directed at THEM? Yet my taking these words at face value somehow puts me even WAAAY beyond the same category as false prophets. What false prophecy have I made about Matthew 10? Jesus told THEM that THEY would not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man came! That is what the words say. Where is my guilt?

How about Matthew 16, Betsey Lane? Where I have wandered from the path? Jesus told those disciples standing right there with Him that some of THEM would not die until THEY saw Him coming in His kingdom? Again, I am taking these words as Jesus spoke them. How, then, does that make me a "nut" worse than Major Dames and guilty of trying to take a speck out of someone else's eye when I supposedly have a log in my own? Again, where is my guilt? Have I not understood Jesus' words in their plain sense? By what justification do you apply this passage to us?

How much clearer could Jesus have been in Matthew 24:34? The words are plain if one is willing to take them at face value. Yet any who take them that way are accused of twisting the Scriptures and refusing to understand. What? The whole of Matthew 24 is directed as those very disciples standing there with Jesus. Throughout the history of our language, the "you" of direct address has been skillfully used and well understood. You understand its use every day in your own life. Yet here you cannot see it? It is as though you read someone else's letter and make the contents of it apply to you! I am bringing nothing to this passage--no preconceived ideas and no preconceptions. Jesus looked right at those disciples and said, YOU, YOU, YOU, repeatedly (20 times)! That is the most basic normal usage of language. Yet I am the one who is attacked for taking such words in their normal usage!

Did not Jesus looked right at those disciples right there with Him and tell them that they should not be troubled, that they would be killed, that they would hear of wars and rumors of wars, and that they would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet? Did he not, Betsey Lane? It is not I who brings baggage to this simple passage which forbids simple words to be understood in the way in which they were intended. However, if we come to this passage firmly believing in a yet future coming of Christ, we CANNOT accept the plain teachings here because to do so would caused grave contradictions to our system of interpretion. That is a dangerous approach to the Word of God!

Jesus clearly indicated that all the things of which He spoke were to happen in THAT generation which He addressed. The words are plain, but they do not fit your understandings, so you seek to find an alternate meaning. Who is being more true to the passage, Betsey Lane? It is a very unwise thing to hold so tightly to something that one cannot see the truths of the Scriptures. I know. I have been there. There are others, I am certain, who are just as diligent as I am about the plain words of the Bible, but I doubt there is anyone who is more diligent. I do not say that to pat myself on the back. I say that because I have been deceived in the past and am doubly cautious to never let that happen again.

Did not Jesus look right at that first-century Caiaphas and say to him and the Sanhedrin "YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven?" What hermeneutical calisthenics do we need to perform to strip this statement from its plain sense? How am I misunderstanding these simple words, Betsey Lane?

James said "The coming of the Lord is at hand." I take that as it is written. Futurists say that "at hand" really doesn't mean "at hand" in the normal sense of that expression. By what justification? Because the normal sense does not fit our predetermined scheme of things? By what hermeneutical principle does a simple time indicators such as "at hand" mean that something is always in a state of being at hand? Yet I am the one who is accused of twisting the Scriptures.

How about what John was shown? Betsey Lane, was he not plainly and clearly shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was then NEAR? Is that not what the words say? It is not I who gives these simple words strange meanings, Betsey Lane.

When one is taught that the Lord has not yet come and that when He comes He will come on literal clouds and every eye throughout the entire world on some large-screen TV will see it, he must of necessity ignore or redefine ALL of the plain time statements. That is reading into (eisegesis) and not out of the Scriptures (exegesis).

Sadly, I doubt that you will ever be open to any of these things. Without any malice towards you, I say this--you are in love with a system of eschatology and no amount of truth will deter you. And feeling so strongly about it, you will continue to lash out at your brothers and sisters in Christ who do not agree with you. I hold out hope for someone who loves the Word more than he loves his position. My sister in Christ, I do not think you are there yet.

Those who know me and those who are fair, whether they agree or disagree, realize that I have done nothing else but take biblical passages in their context and understand simple words in their plain sense. I see very little if any attention to context on these threads and the things written to specific people might just as well have been written in a vacuum because everything and anything is all about US and not about those to whom the words were first written. Context matters. Words matter. Audience relevance matters. You think my giving close attention to such things makes me the worst nut on the tree. I call it sound Bible study!

Blessings to you, Betsey Lane. May God help all of us to see His truth!

"Let God be true but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).

Preterist
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
4,309 posts, read 5,588,571 times
Reputation: 939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
Dear Betsey Lane: I understand your strong emotions on these issues. I really do! We all have them.

But I have done none other than present the words of Scripture, Betsey Lane. Have I not done so? What do the following passages clearly say?

Jesus, as He sent out the Twelve, told them the things that they should expect as they went to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 10). Tell me where it is that I am so wrong in taking Jesus' words here in their plain, common sense? Do you not agree that Jesus told THEM that THEY would suffer those things? Did Jesus then not say to THEM: "YOU will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes." What does that plainly say, Betsey Lane? How does that someone become fulfilled in us when it was directed at THEM? Yet my taking these words at face value somehow puts me even WAAAY beyond the same category as false prophets. What false prophecy have I made about Matthew 10? Jesus told THEM that THEY would not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man came! That is what the words say. Where is my guilt?

How about Matthew 16, Betsey Lane? Where I have wandered from the path? Jesus told those disciples standing right there with Him that some of THEM would not die until THEY saw Him coming in His kingdom? Again, I am taking these words as Jesus spoke them. How, then, does that make me a "nut" worse than Major Dames and guilty of trying to take a speck out of someone else's eye when I supposedly have a log in my own? Again, where is my guilt? Have I not understood Jesus' words in their plain sense? By what justification do you apply this passage to us?

How much clearer could Jesus have been in Matthew 24:34? The words are plain if one is willing to take them at face value. Yet any who take them that way are accused of twisting the Scriptures and refusing to understand. What? The whole of Matthew 24 is directed as those very disciples standing there with Jesus. Throughout the history of our language, the "you" of direct address has been skillfully used and well understood. You understand its use every day in your own life. Yet here you cannot see it? It is as though you read someone else's letter and make the contents of it apply to you! I am bringing nothing to this passage--no preconceived ideas and no preconceptions. Jesus looked right at those disciples and said, YOU, YOU, YOU, repeatedly (20 times)! That is the most basic normal usage of language. Yet I am the one who is attacked for taking such words in their normal usage!

Did not Jesus looked right at those disciples right there with Him and tell them that they should not be troubled, that they would be killed, that they would hear of wars and rumors of wars, and that they would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet? Did he not, Betsey Lane? It is not I who brings baggage to this simple passage which forbids simple words to be understood in the way in which they were intended. However, if we come to this passage firmly believing in a yet future coming of Christ, we CANNOT accept the plain teachings here because to do so would caused grave contradictions to our system of interpretion. That is a dangerous approach to the Word of God!

Jesus clearly indicated that all the things of which He spoke were to happen in THAT generation which He addressed. The words are plain, but they do not fit your understandings, so you seek to find an alternate meaning. Who is being more true to the passage, Betsey Lane? It is a very unwise thing to hold so tightly to something that one cannot see the truths of the Scriptures. I know. I have been there. There are others, I am certain, who are just as diligent as I am about the plain words of the Bible, but I doubt there is anyone who is more diligent. I do not say that to pat myself on the back. I say that because I have been deceived in the past and am doubly cautious to never let that happen again.

Did not Jesus look right at that first-century Caiaphas and say to him and the Sanhedrin "YOU will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven?" What hermeneutical calisthenics do we need to perform to strip this statement from its plain sense? How am I misunderstanding these simple words, Betsey Lane?

James said "The coming of the Lord is at hand." I take that as it is written. Futurists say that "at hand" really doesn't mean "at hand" in the normal sense of that expression. By what justification? Because the normal sense does not fit our predetermined scheme of things? By what hermeneutical principle does a simple time indicators such as "at hand" mean that something is always in a state of being at hand? Yet I am the one who is accused of twisting the Scriptures.

How about what John was shown? Betsey Lane, was he not plainly and clearly shown those things which were to SHORTLY take place because the time was then NEAR? Is that not what the words say? It is not I who gives these simple words strange meanings, Betsey Lane.

When one is taught that the Lord has not yet come and that when He comes He will come on literal clouds and every eye throughout the entire world on some large-screen TV will see it, he must of necessity ignore or redefine ALL of the plain time statements. That is reading into (eisegesis) and not out of the Scriptures (exegesis).

Sadly, I doubt that you will ever be open to any of these things. Without any malice towards you, I say this--you are in love with a system of eschatology and no amount of truth will deter you. And feeling so strongly about it, you will continue to lash out at your brothers and sisters in Christ who do not agree with you. I hold out hope for someone who loves the Word more than he loves his position. My sister in Christ, I do not think you are there yet.

Those who know me and those who are fair, whether they agree or disagree, realize that I have done nothing else but take biblical passages in their context and understand simple words in their plain sense. I see very little if any attention to context on these threads and the things written to specific people might just as well have been written in a vacuum because everything and anything is all about US and not about those to whom the words were first written. Context matters. Words matter. Audience relevance matters. You think my giving close attention to such things makes me the worst nut on the tree. I call it sound Bible study!

Blessings to you, Betsey Lane. May God help all of us to see His truth!

"Let God be true but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).

Preterist
You have an assignment, so do I. Love you.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:48 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,097,317 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
You have an assignment, so do I. Love you.
Thanks sister! I love you too. Have a great night's rest in our Precious Lord!

In Him, Preterist
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:50 PM
juj
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,335,749 times
Reputation: 330
Hey Betsey, I have a movie for you. The movie is "Knowing". It's right up your alley. Just saw it tonight. Very disturbing movie indeed.
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:57 AM
 
Location: MI
1,289 posts, read 1,903,338 times
Reputation: 290
I can't wait to see that movie!
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