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Old 03-24-2009, 08:24 AM
 
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While we judge who is or isn't saved...

it's seems as simple as "remember me"

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him, I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.
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Old 01-05-2010, 01:55 AM
 
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Firstly, the sinner's prayer does not center around the idea of saying the "magic words" and thus you are saved. There are actually many different "versions" of it (that all essentially hold the same meaning), but the point isn't about saying the right words; it is more for people who truly seek God, but do not know where to begin, how to pray, or what to say.

The sinner's prayer actually is based on several key verses in the Bible: It addresses that we are all sinners ("For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" --Romans 3:23), it addresses that eternal life is a free gift from God ("For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." --Roman 6:23), it addresses that out of love, Jesus took our place in the death we deserve because of sin ("But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." --Romans 5:8), and it addresses that we need to confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe it in our heart ("That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." --Romans 10:9-10)

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." --Romans 10:13

Mainly: "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him." --1 John 4:15, 16 (I also recommend reading the whole passage of 1 John 4:7-21)

"The Lord my God is gracious and merciful, and He will not turn away His face from me if I return to Him." --2 Chronicles 30:9

In response to the verse previously quoted (Acts 2:38--"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."), the concept of baptism is publicly declaring that you are choosing Christ as your savior and to follow him publicly. It is not fundamentally necessary for salvation, but that does not mean it isn't a good thing; it is in fact a GREAT and Beautiful act of discipleship. Though physical baptism is good, Peter isn't exactly calling for a literal water baptism here, but instead he is speaking of SPIRITUAL baptism. He is saying repent and follow Jesus and you will be saved. It is written "For by GRACE are ye saved THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." --Ephesians 2:8-10 (v10 from TNIV: "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.")

Also, prayer is more powerful than one would think: "The Lord is near to me and all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him sincerely and in truth. He will fulfill the desires of those who reverently and worshipfully fear [to have deep respect and awe for] Him; He also will hear their cry and will save them." --Psalm 145:18-19

and "I will fearlessly and confidently and boldly draw near to the throne of grace (the throne of God's unmerited favor to sinners), that I may receive mercy [for my failures] and find grace to help in good time for every need [appropriate help and well-timed help, coming just when I need it]. --Hebrews 4:16

Lastly, for more about prayer, I recommend checking out Joyce Meyer's sermon "The Power of Simple Prayer" that can be found here: ([url=http://www.joycemeyer.org/ourministries/broadcast/]Joyce Meyer Ministries — Broadcast[/url]) if you just scroll back through the earlier videos. Just as some people learn in different ways than others, so do people have diverse ways of teaching. In my own experience, I was put off by speakers for the longest time because I felt they were too spiritual or emotionally manipulative for me to Really and practically follow God's Word until I came upon Joyce Meyer and for me, she became a personal favorite. Joel Olsteen is also good though his points are more broad and more driven towards motivating people, but those are the talents God has blessed him with and He blesses each of us with different gifts and different plans for each of us. God bless you all in your search for Truth.

"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil." --Proverbs 3:5-7

"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things...But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him." --1 John 2:20, 27 (meaning: request a sharpening of discernment to be empowered to see [situations, circumstances, concepts] as God sees it)
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Old 01-05-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by Vessif View Post
Joel Olsteen preaches a false prosperity gospel......As far as being saved is concerned it's not about saying the "magic words"......We need to believe the TRUE Gospel......That is...... that all men are sinners and are in desperate need of the Saviour........We need to repent of sin and turn to Jesus Christ for salvation.....finally and most important we must demonstrate obedience and a willingness to follow the Lord.....True Faith in Christ will be demonstrated in our changed behaviour and attitudes regarding sin.........This is how you will be able to determine if your profession of Faith is indeed genuine.......Faith without Faithfulness is flawed.....By their fruit you will know them.....
Faithfulness to all Gods commands is a requirement for salvation....as is evidenced by the numerous parables that Jesus taught with. Our righteousness has to exceed that of the scribes and pharisees who practiced a shallow obedience to the law of God for their oral traditions took precedence over the actual laws God gave them. Repentance is mandatory for salvation and we have to continually repent, when we do sin, as we are being made into the image of God, dying to self daily until the Old Man is completely crucified and we are truly walking in the Spirit....and one day we can achieve being perfect and one with God, just as Jesus taught us. Jesus said that being a disciple was costly. What cost is there if there is no change in ones life to be holy and perfect as Jesus taught us to be?

As you said, faith without faithfulness is flawed and is better known as The Cheap Grace Gospel....which is preached far and wide in the world of churchianity today....it's a darn shame.
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:32 AM
 
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Because all the work of salvation was accomplished by Christ on the Cross, salvation is as simple as Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.' There is no work on our part involved in salvation. We do not have to feel sorry for our sins. We do not have to promise never to sin again. Repenting does not mean feeling sorry for sin. To repent means to change your mind about Christ. You didn't believe in Christ and then you heard the Gospel, and understanding the issue, you believed in Christ. You repented. The word for repent as used for salvation is METANOIA-to change your mind. The other Greek word for repent, METAMELOMAI-to feel sorry, is never used for salvation.

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Baptism is a public declaration of someone who has already believed in Christ for salvation.

People who maintain that you must feel sorry for your sins, or be baptized, or do any kind of works, including giving up anything or depending on something that THEY do for salvation do not understand the issue. The issue is placing your trust ENTIRELY in Christ for salvation.

If you think you must do anything other than what the Bible says over and over again, which is simply believe in Christ, then you do not understand the issue involved in salvation and you are not saved. You either trust in the finished work of Christ on the Cross, or you are trusting in something that you do for salvation. Hades is full of people who trusted in something THEY did for salvation.

Salvation is this simple. Once you have heard the Gospel and understand the issue, and you want to have a relationship with Christ forever, then in the privacy of your own soul simply form the thought something like this. ''Father, I am believing in Christ for salvation.'' In that moment of time you are saved forever. You can never lose your salvation.

People who call that easy believism, or say that it is a license to sin, again do not understand the issue involved. The believer after salvation is commanded to grow up spiritually. (2 Peter 3:18). God does discipline the disobedient believer. (Hebrews 12:5-13).

You do not work for or earn your salvation, and you do not do anything to maintain your salvation. One simple non meritorious act of faith (trust) in Christ and you are saved forever. If you try to work up some kind of sorrow for your sins as a condition for salvation, you have added your work to the work of Christ on the Cross and you are NOT saved.

Romans 11:6 ' But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
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Old 01-05-2010, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because all the work of salvation was accomplished by Christ on the Cross, salvation is as simple as Acts 16:31 'Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.' There is no work on our part involved in salvation. We do not have to feel sorry for our sins. We do not have to promise never to sin again. Repenting does not mean feeling sorry for sin. To repent means to change your mind about Christ. You didn't believe in Christ and then you heard the Gospel, and understanding the issue, you believed in Christ. You repented. The word for repent as used for salvation is METANOIA-to change your mind. The other Greek word for repent, METAMELOMAI-to feel sorry, is never used for salvation.

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Baptism is a public declaration of someone who has already believed in Christ for salvation.

People who maintain that you must feel sorry for your sins, or be baptized, or do any kind of works, including giving up anything or depending on something that THEY do for salvation do not understand the issue. The issue is placing your trust ENTIRELY in Christ for salvation.

If you think you must do anything other than what the Bible says over and over again, which is simply believe in Christ, then you do not understand the issue involved in salvation and you are not saved. You either trust in the finished work of Christ on the Cross, or you are trusting in something that you do for salvation. Hades is full of people who trusted in something THEY did for salvation.

Salvation is this simple. Once you have heard the Gospel and understand the issue, and you want to have a relationship with Christ forever, then in the privacy of your own soul simply form the thought something like this. ''Father, I am believing in Christ for salvation.'' In that moment of time you are saved forever. You can never lose your salvation.

People who call that easy believism, or say that it is a license to sin, again do not understand the issue involved. The believer after salvation is commanded to grow up spiritually. (2 Peter 3:18). God does discipline the disobedient believer. (Hebrews 12:5-13).

You do not work for or earn your salvation, and you do not do anything to maintain your salvation. One simple non meritorious act of faith (trust) in Christ and you are saved forever. If you try to work up some kind of sorrow for your sins as a condition for salvation, you have added your work to the work of Christ on the Cross and you are NOT saved.

Romans 11:6 ' But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Like I said in my previous post....Jesus says different. I would rather be a Jesus follower than a Paul follower. Read the parables of Jesus and you will clearly see that salvation comes with conditions and is not as easy as the Cheap Grace Gospel says it is....that's why we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Salvation requires our repentance and obedience to Gods commands....it's right there in the bible, all you have to do is read the words of Jesus himself.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:15 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Like I said in my previous post....Jesus says different. I would rather be a Jesus follower than a Paul follower. Read the parables of Jesus and you will clearly see that salvation comes with conditions and is not as easy as the Cheap Grace Gospel says it is....that's why we have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Salvation requires our repentance and obedience to Gods commands....it's right there in the bible, all you have to do is read the words of Jesus himself.
The entire Bible is the word of God, the mind of Christ, the thinking of Christ set down in writing. Everything that is recorded in the Bible is by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The only condition for salvation is to believe in Christ for salvation.

What did Christ say?

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''

John 11:25 ''I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, 26) and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?''

John 6:28 ''They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?'' 29) Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''

What did Jesus say to the thief who asked Him to remember him? ''Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.'' (Luke 23:43)

Working out your salvation with fear and trembling simply means to advance spiritually after salvation. It doesn't mean that you must work to keep your salvation.

The parables that Christ spoke have nothing to do with working for salvation.
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Old 01-05-2010, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,118,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The entire Bible is the word of God, the mind of Christ, the thinking of Christ set down in writing. Everything that is recorded in the Bible is by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

The only condition for salvation is to believe in Christ for salvation.

What did Christ say?

John 8:24 ''I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins.''

John 11:25 ''I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me shall live even if he dies, 26) and everyone who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?''

John 6:28 ''They said therefore to Him, ''What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?'' 29) Jesus answered and said to them, ''This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.''

What did Jesus say to the thief who asked Him to remember him? ''Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.'' (Luke 23:43)

Working out your salvation with fear and trembling simply means to advance spiritually after salvation. It doesn't mean that you must work to keep your salvation.

The parables that Christ spoke have nothing to do with working for salvation.
I am really curious how you interpret the following statement made by Jesus, especially the last two verses:

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

We know from scripture that the scribes and pharisees practiced a shallow obedience to the law because their oral traditions took precedence over the actual law that was given them by God. How can our righteousness exceed theirs if we are told to ignore the law completely, something Jesus NEVER taught us to do?

I suggest you read Jesus parables again because you definitely missed the boat there.....Read Luke 13:1-5 which is a call to repent. Read Matthew 19:16-22 which is a call to obedience to the commandments. These are just a few of many where we are called to repent and obey the commands.

I'll leave you with this:

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:26 AM
 
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@ChristyGrl:

I'm not saying this to be mean or offensive, but after reading your posts I have to say that you simply do not understand salvation. You are confusing sanctification with justification. It seems you do this because you reject the writings of Paul as the inspired Word of God. Since you ignore so many of God's thoughts on the matter, it's not surprising that you are confused.
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Old 01-05-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
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Originally Posted by Jremy View Post
@ChristyGrl:

I'm not saying this to be mean or offensive, but after reading your posts I have to say that you simply do not understand salvation. You are confusing sanctification with justification. It seems you do this because you reject the writings of Paul as the inspired Word of God. Since you ignore so many of God's thoughts on the matter, it's not surprising that you are confused.
No offense taken....but I understand perfectly, by Jesus very own words, what is required in order to obtain and keep my salvation.

It's not that I reject the writings of Paul, I truly believe that he is misunderstood and that his writings are twisted by those who have preconceived notions of what he is saying. I do not, however, give Pauls words precedence over Jesus words....where Pauls words are ambiguous or not easily understood, I prefer to look at Jesus words to clear up the meanings.

I do not however believe in the Cheap Grace Gospel of faith alone....especially when Jesus taught something completely different, that discipleship was costly. There are those who teach you just have to have faith and nothing else....this is absolutely wrong and is contradictory to everything Jesus told us was required (our repentance and obedience) to enter into the Kingdom. There has to be some fruit in our lives....some evidence that we are changing (not only our minds but our behavior) and being conformed to the image of Christ....we have to be in Christ and how can one accomplish being in Christ and abiding in him if one is still sinning and living their lives the way they always have? There are those who propound that we are rotten sinners and can never change and that is just a bunch of malarky because Jesus told us we can change.... but only if we abide in Christ and live by the Spirit instead of the flesh. One is not made into a New Creation by just saying some silly sinners prayer....if one is sincerely repentant, it is just the start of a long and painful process of dying to self. If one refuses to die to self....are they abiding in Christ and are they saved just by their faith alone?
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Old 01-05-2010, 11:01 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
I am really curious how you interpret the following statement made by Jesus, especially the last two verses:

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.


19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

We know from scripture that the scribes and pharisees practiced a shallow obedience to the law because their oral traditions took precedence over the actual law that was given them by God. How can our righteousness exceed theirs if we are told to ignore the law completely, something Jesus NEVER taught us to do?

I suggest you read Jesus parables again because you definitely missed the boat there.....Read Luke 13:1-5 which is a call to repent.
Again, repenting with regard to salvation has to do with a change of mind about Christ. Not about feeling sorry for your sins.

Quote:
Read Matthew 19:16-22 which is a call to obedience to the commandments. These are just a few of many where we are called to repent and obey the commands.
I've addressed this a couple of times on other threads. In Matthew 19:16-22, the rich young ruler is under the mistaken impression that he must do something to earn his salvation. Just as you also are under that same mistaken impression. And so Christ answered the young rulers question. He explained to him the requirements of the law if he was to earn his salvation. Something that is impossible to do since we are all born spiritually dead as a result of being born with Adams original sin.

Quote:
I'll leave you with this:



John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
And Christ did indeed fulfill the Law. Therefore,

Romans 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22) even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24) being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 3:26 For the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27) Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? ''And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'' 4) Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5) But to the one sho does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness

The point of the law was to show that man can not save himself by keeping the law. The law pointed the way to Christ who DID fulfull the law. Therefore, anyone who believes in Christ has been justified through his faith in Christ. God imputes HIS righteousness to the believer. OUR righteousness is totally rejected by God.

Titus 3:5 ''He saved us, NOT on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6) whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7) that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

What does God think of OUR righteousness? Isa. 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment (literally, used menstrual rags)

That's what God thinks of human righteousness. Time after time, the Bible makes it clear that salvation is by grace and not by works. Salvation is by grace and not by any human merit. Those who do not believe in Christ for salvation are condemned to the eternal lake of fire on the basis of their works. (Revelation 20:11-15.)


And I will leave you with this. The stench of legalistic, self righteous arrogance excudes from those who would attempt to negate the grace of God with their own works of righteousness. God will have none of it.
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