Do We Really Have A Sin "Nature"? (scriptures, sinners, Bible)

To me this seems to be a misunderstanding. Where in the Bible does it say we have a sin 'nature'? I am talking ontologically concerning our constitution as human beings subsequent to the Fall. I am not talking about not having sin but whether there is 'a thing' ontologically as a 'sin nature.'

I will wait fo some comments before I post anymore thoughts.

[carolina_guy]

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

I agree but that only says we are sinners. Usually when I talk to Christians they think that we aquired a 'sin nature' after the fall but the Bible does not seem to suggest such a thing. It as if somthing was added to our already existing human nature. We only have one nature - and that is a 'human nature' which was in fellowship with the life of God. This life was taken away (subtracted) when Adam fell and hence Death enter into the world. It is Death and Life which are contrasted in the Scriptures. That is the way I see it.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

I agree but that only says we are sinners. Usually when I talk to Christians they think that we aquired a 'sin nature' after the fall but the Bible does not seem to suggest such a thing. It as if somthing was added to our already existing human nature. We only have one nature - and that is a 'human nature' which was in fellowship with the life of God. This life was taken away (subtracted) when Adam fell and hence Death enter into the world. It is Death and Life which are contrasted in the Scriptures. That is the way I see it.

I don't know if it's found in Scripture that we have a sin nature, but I think we can derive such an idea based on Scriptures like the ones I used above. Our human nature is sinful and we are born sinful. So to me, that means we have a sin nature - we are naturally sinful.

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

I don't know if it's found in Scripture that we have a sin nature, but I think we can derive such an idea based on Scriptures like the ones I used above. Our human nature is sinful and we are born sinful. So to me, that means we have a sin nature - we are naturally sinful.

If that is how you want to define it (somewhat redundant) that is fine but as I said I not sure Christians look at it that way? This understanding only takes the term 'nature' as meaning conduct, existence, mode of operation, ect. This just means we sin because we are seperated from God's life but as far as nature as ontologically defined I think the Scriptures are silent.

[aquila]

Shiloh, are you asking if there is something genetic in every human that causes them to sin?

Originally Posted by aquila

Shiloh, are you asking if there is something genetic in every human that causes them to sin?

Well not really but give me your thoughts. Is everthing that makes us human - genetic? What is human nature? I think it is Body and Soul. I think we gravitate towards sin without the Life or Spirit of God - which is something that as Christians we have the power to not do because of the indwelling of the Spirit. The only difference we have from Adam now is that the resurrection of the Body has not happened yet but we as adam still have a choice to yield to the Spirit and walk in holiness. I do not see any genetic aspect to sin - it is a spiritual and soulish problem. When a person is without the Spirit of Life they operate on the soulish and physical aspects/levels - they become primary not secondary. As Christians we are able to yeild and disobey.

[J678]

Sounds like a philosophy debate question, and the interpretation of "sinful nature" is merely semantics IMO.

[MysticPhD]

This is a complex question and will require an extended answer (several posts) . . . if anyone is truly interested. I will proceed under the assumption that at least Shiloh is interested. This requires a great deal of effort . . . so please issue a stop request if it is of no interest in THIS forum. I will endeavor to make it Christian by relating it to metaphors in scripture.

Yes we do have what could be called a sinful nature. Understanding it would go a long way toward understanding the true purpose of scripture. The composition and functioning of our brain would seem to be necessary detail . . . especially to fully appreciate the symbolism of the metaphors embedded in the scriptural accounts. However, I will endeavor to keep the discussion as uncomplicated as possible while conveying the essential information. (Any pros . . . consider the audience and no nit-picking)

All animals, including man, have what is called the old brain or basal ganglion. This old brain is the seat of our emotions and inner drives. We are unique in that our big brain has the necessary capabilities to enable us to override or suppress these inner drives (e.g. to turn the other cheek). The distinction between the old brain and our big brain will be clearer after I describe the behavioral differences between them.

Our big brain is, essentially, our cerebrum. The frontal lobe of our cerebrum is credited with being the seat of thought or consciousness.The other lobes enable us to see, hear, and activate the various muscles of our body. Coordination of these diverse functions is achieved through the mechanism of association.

The frontal lobe has access to all the information that comes into all the other lobes. It is the central receiving station for monitor and control of our body. The association neurons connecting it with the other lobes and the nerve fibers connecting it with the rest of the central nervous system are like the various controls situated on the amplifier in a complex stereo system. It has all the necessary controls for input and output, volume and tone, high range and low range filters, muting circuits, and so on. In fact, it even has two separate channels. The cerebrum is divided down the middle by a longitudinal fissure and each half corresponds to a separate side of our body.

Our soul has a partner in the production and coordination of our consciousness and behavior. That partner has some very definite ideas about the source and kind of "music" the soul should play through the stereo system of the brain. The pituitary gland is this partner. The pituitary is the most important organ we have. Its physical location, cradled in a complete bowl of bone, attests to its importance. It is the regulator for the entire body and becomes the key defense plant if our body is threatened in any way, real or imagined.

The pituitary is located in the other behavioral division of the brain called the limbic system, or "old brain." I shall consider with it the hindbrain and the entire autonomic nervous system. In essence, this covers the entire lower portion of the brain and spinal cord. The spinal cord and the brain are continuous both structurally and functionally. This old brain is sometimes referred to as the reptilian brain and it looks very much like a serpent.

This second behavioral grouping contains every factor necessary to animal life, every instinct, drive, and capability except thought. ( The process of thinking is restricted to the cerebrum.) This old brain is the motivation and emotion center. This center is virtually identical to the one in the lower animals and is the regulator of our emotions. Emotions are chemical and physical changes in the body that result from hormone stimulation of various glands and control centers in the body. The pituitary, the master gland, produces the various hormones to stimulate all the others.

Motivation and emotion in the human animal are intricate multifaceted phenomena. However, the complexity of human emotions cannot be attributed solely to this emotion center. It is the marriage of soul and animal that produces the complex human emotions and motivations. The complexity arises from the inclusion of our soul (consciousness and subconsciousness) in what would otherwise be the typical animal responses.

Our consciousness provides many sources of response that are lacking in animals. For example, the limbic system cannot distinguish between real and imaginary situations. It responds to imagination as if it were reality, which explains most of the complication in human emotions. Animals do not imagine and are spared these complex emotions. For them the pituitary must be stimulated by actual situations or prior conditioning.

When we or our circumstances signal the pituitary in a positive manner it will produce conditions in the body that are almost uniformly beneficial. We call these the positive emotions. When we or our circumstances signal the pituitary in a negative manner . . . it will produce conditions we call the negative emotions. While these conditions endow us with potentially life-saving temporary enhancements of our capabilities, they can be very physically harmful to our body if prolonged.

If we or our circumstances fail to signal, we do not emote. If we transmit positive signals, regardless what is occurring, we will experience the positive emotions. For some psychic adepts, it is possible to visualize pleasant situations, even during extremely painful physical circumstances and, thus, be spared the pain. Unfortunately, that kind of discipline is not easy, nor is it possible in all situations. However, whether they are good or bad, emotions are chemical and physical changes in our body resulting from the transmission of signals to the old brain - our animal nature. The old brain is the source of ALL our sinful desires. I will continue in a subsequent post . . . if there is interest and no objections.

Originally Posted by J678

Sounds like a philosophy debate question, and the interpretation of "sinful nature" is merely semantics IMO.

Well yes, but this is what I hear Christians say all the time - we have a sin nature without further thought of what they are saying.