Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Didn't ya know they were gonna say "Because its in the Bible" and then start quoting it? lol
I had a hunch, but I figured at least some could do without falling back on it. I think one of this forum did and I congratulate him on it. It's not what I believe or agree with (OBVIOUSLY), but it gave me an answer that was sufficient.
To many of the Christians:
I wasn't looking for a conversion, I was asking a question about why Christians believe a certain part of their doctrine, something that many don't understand. It's no different than asking an atheist about atheism, or a Buddhist about Buddhism. I'm trying to further my education about world religions so I can have complete and total tolerance for them through understanding. Sorry to let you down, but no plans for conversion here and no amount of Bible quotes is going to help.
I will tell you this when seeking spiritual advice: the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galations 5:22-23). When someone is exhibiting the qualities of the spirit in their faith, these will be the qualities they manifest. Jesus also told us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. I have noticed a great number of people who try to use hellfire and damnation tactics to witness to people are usually fearful and angry. This seems to be the opposite of the fruits of the spirit. And if Jesus is telling us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, I don't think he WANTS us to have a heart that is delighted at the thought of God torturing people
To many of the Christians:
I wasn't looking for a conversion, I was asking a question about why Christians believe a certain part of their doctrine, something that many don't understand.
Christians don't really believe what they say they believe when they're pressed on it - how could they give you an sufficient answer?
Hi tjd8591,
Many Christians share quotes from the scriptures because this is where many of our beliefs come from. So when reasons are given for a belief, the source for the belief is being shared. It is just that many don't agree on what the scriptures are saying concerning this subject. God bless.
How can one choose something if they never heard of it?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
You refer to Romans 1:18-22:
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
That passage does not refer to salvation it refers to judgement - why God will be just in destroying the vast majority of mankind.
The statement I am referring to was:
"God does not send anyone to hell. He's laid out what He requires, either you can choose to accept it or not, but whatever YOU choose, you have to deal with what comes from it."
There were millions of Chinese who never heard of God or the word of God who could not choose to "accept it or not".
You replied:
Is that the only verse you read in that Book?
The original statement was:
"The only thing God hates is sin, He does not hate people."
I replied:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp Hos 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.
HK
So please stick to the point - the scriptures clearly state there are people whom God does hate.
Psa 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Even in its weakest sense the Hebrew word behind hate means "does not love".
I am Chinese and my ancestors were from the Province of Fujian. My family still speaks the language that was spoken since the Tang Dynasty. As far back as my great great great grandparents they were all Christians.
Buddhism came into China from India and as always in the competition of beliefs, the gods made of stone or wood which people can see and touch win out. For thousands of years there was freedom of religion in China until the communist takeover in the 20th C. Remember we all came from one family saved from the Great Flood and all have knowledge of the True God!
Amazing Discovery in China Changes Christian History in Asia (http://www.keikyo.com/xian/discovery_05_01.htm - broken link)
Amen Wilvan!!! Excellent post.
There's your answer, Harold. As if the scriptures ILNC gave you were'nt plain enough.
This is an issue I struggled with a lot when I was younger and I almost became an atheist because of it, and yet it is such a complicated question. I can say that I don't know all the answers, but I will tell you what I sincerely believe about God and Jesus. I believe that in our spiritual quest, our point is to know and commune with God. So the ultimate question we should be looking to is "Who is God?" And making one's personal destination in the afterlife the main point of sharing one's faith diminishes the glory of Christ. I believe that Jesus Christ was God who came and walked upon this Earth and experienced life as a human being. It is a mystery because he showed us the nature of God while also experiencing what it is to be a human being on Earth. So knowing and following Jesus is the main point because following Jesus is following God. Jesus is not a means to an end, but the whole entire point of everything.
Could there be a Hell? Yes. Though it's not as straightforward as you think. At one point Jesus says that how we treat our fellow human beings is how we treat him (no mention of what those people believe) and that those who will go to Hell are those who do not clothe the naked, feed the hungry, and visit the sick and imprisoned (Matthew 25:31-46). Yet, I don't think Jesus went around and told people to do these things in order to avoid going to hell. The implication was that the righteous were surprised that they were serving Christ by their actions. And yet we are saved by faith and not by works. But one might say that what one does ultimately defines what one believes.
I will tell you this when seeking spiritual advice: the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galations 5:22-23). When someone is exhibiting the qualities of the spirit in their faith, these will be the qualities they manifest. Jesus also told us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us. I have noticed a great number of people who try to use hellfire and damnation tactics to witness to people are usually fearful and angry. This seems to be the opposite of the fruits of the spirit. And if Jesus is telling us to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute us, I don't think he WANTS us to have a heart that is delighted at the thought of God torturing people.
I bring up the fruits of the spirit because anyone can use scripture. Take Fred Phelps for instance, who is basically preaching that everyone but him and his family is going to Hell. He seems to be very angry and wants to control others, rather than himself. But, it is the Holy Spirit who dwells in us through Christ who fills us with these fruits and helps us to read and interpret scripture.
In conclusion, there are many mysteries and questions in a growing relationship with Christ, but the whole point is the relationship. In the relationship, we are transformed to be more and more like Christ as we grow and that means that we exhibit more fruits of the spirit. The best way that we can witness and share our faith is to treat other human beings the way we would treat Jesus.
Great post!
It's so true!
I also feel that a lot of the bible quotes I have seen throughout this forum are taken so out of context from the time they were written. God is loving and forgiving.
How can one choose something if they never heard of it?
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
You refer to Romans 1:18-22:
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
That passage does not refer to salvation it refers to judgement - why God will be just in destroying the vast majority of mankind.
The statement I am referring to was:
"God does not send anyone to hell. He's laid out what He requires, either you can choose to accept it or not, but whatever YOU choose, you have to deal with what comes from it."
There were millions of Chinese who never heard of God or the word of God who could not choose to "accept it or not".
The question is what happens to them -?
HK
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As if the scriptures ILNC gave you were'nt plain enough.
