Jesus of Nazareth vs. Jesus the Christ (crucifixion, doctrine, church)

[HotinAZ]

For some religions, there is no difference.
For some denominations, there is no difference.

By our God given reason, and the Spirit of Truth, we can see the difference. There are so many droplets of information, into the sea of religion, that sometimes it is hard to tell, what is fact, and what is paganistic fantasy.

Some say Jesus of Nazareth COULD NOT sin. Why? Becuase he was God.
Some say Jesus "had a leg up" concerning this, or a "God nature".
Some say He was the Christ, the moment He was birthed INTO the world.
Some say the Christ was simply the name of Jesus, like a last name.

Some say righteousness is impossible to achieve, even having been saved through the Blood of the risen Christ Jesus. Some say that Christ Jesus IS our righteousness.

What say you?

What was the need to overcome the world, if the world was already overcome? And so by saying this, what they are really saying is that Jesus of Nazareth overcame the world, by the God-Nature already in Him, than really what He did was of no significance. Right?

So when the annointing came, the Spirit descending upon Him, thus becoming Jesus the Christ, really then what we have is also not anything of importance, because the Spirit was already there, right?

So really, the story of the NT was nothing but God being raised up, in the "form" of a human, just so He could die on the cross, right?

So man could kill God? And after killing God, God-man could just magically poof Himself out of the grave, right?

[DaniMae1]

Hmm...interesting thoughts. I've always wondered about the dove landing on Jesus. If he was indeed god then the spirit was always there. Right? I was taught that it was an example to us. An example of what? I've never seen anyone in church have a dove come and land on them when being filled with the spirit.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by DaniMae1

Hmm...interesting thoughts. I've always wondered about the dove landing on Jesus. If he was indeed god then the spirit was always there. Right? I was taught that it was an example to us. An example of what? I've never seen anyone in church have a dove come and land on them when being filled with the spirit.

Luk 3:22And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

(NASB)and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."

For myself, this IS the announcement of the Christ Jesus. Jesus of Nazereth, and the Christ=annointing(The Word) have now merged, or "born again". Notice this is when His ministry begins vs 23.

[ShanaBrown]

What say you?

I believe that Jesus was the Son of God, the only begotten God, the exact image of the Father, the mediator between the Father of God, the Word of God made flesh, but I don't believe that He was the absolute Father. The Father is greater than He is and the Father gave all things to Him. God bless.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

I believe that Jesus was the Son of God, the only begotten God, the exact image of the Father, the mediator between the Father of God, the Word of God made flesh, but I don't believe that He was the absolute Father. The Father is greater than He is and the Father gave all things to Him. God bless.

Jesus who? Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus the Christ.

I also believe Jesus Christ is all that you quoted.

But I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a man, or rather fully HUMAN, and was tempted in all the same ways and with the same human atributes that mankind has, since His youth, until His annointing, and remained in a perfected state throughout His life. The only one to achieve this.

[ShanaBrown]

Jesus who? Jesus of Nazareth, or Jesus the Christ.

I believe that they are one in the same, HotinAz.

I also believe Jesus Christ is all that you quoted.

But I believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a man, or rather fully HUMAN, and was tempted in all the same ways and with the same human atributes that mankind has, since His youth, until His annointing, and remained in a perfected state throughout His life. The only one to achieve this.

After Jesus was annointed, He was still tempted. Before He was crucified, He struggled and prayed for the Father's will to be done. I believe that He learned obedience in all that He suffered but as the Son of God, the exact image of God, the Word of God, He would have never yielded to the temptation. He has a mission to fulfill. God bless.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

I believe that they are one in the same, HotinAz.



After Jesus was annointed, He was still tempted. Before He was crucified, He struggled and prayed for the Father's will to be done. I believe that He learned obedience in all that He suffered but as the Son of God, the exact image of God, the Word of God, He would have never yielded to the temptation. He has a mission to fulfill. God bless.

Thank you for your response.

Got it... Leaves a lot of questions open though, such as ,,,man killed God? God, giving the law knowing full well NO MAN could ever fulfill it, only God Himself could. The lineage from God in Luke, vs. the llineage from Abraham in Matt. The Spirit descending upon Him IN the form of a body! The need for a baptism for Him in the first place, since it is a means of repentance of faith, for sin. But hey, maybe it is just me, as I ask a lot of questions, and don't walk on blindly following that which makes no sense.

But you are the same way. You preach Universal Reconciliation, which as far as the church is concerned, is heresy. I believed that at one time as well, until I paid attention to the words of Jesus concerning the religious pioty of His day. Lots of gnashig and wailing, and outter darkness. Well, that doctrine didn't compute with what He said, so I realized the sea(religion) was gone, but the new heaven and new earth were there.

[ChristyGrl]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

I believe that Jesus was the Son of God, the only begotten God, the exact image of the Father, the mediator between the Father of God, the Word of God made flesh, but I don't believe that He was the absolute Father. The Father is greater than He is and the Father gave all things to Him. God bless.

I've always had trouble with Jesus being the absolute God too...while there are places in scripture that might allude to that, there are many more that just state Him as the Son of God.

[Mike555]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

For some religions, there is no difference.
For some denominations, there is no difference.

By our God given reason, and the Spirit of Truth, we can see the difference. There are so many droplets of information, into the sea of religion, that sometimes it is hard to tell, what is fact, and what is paganistic fantasy.

Some say Jesus of Nazareth COULD NOT sin. Why? Becuase he was God.
Some say Jesus "had a leg up" concerning this, or a "God nature".
Some say He was the Christ, the moment He was birthed INTO the world.
Some say the Christ was simply the name of Jesus, like a last name.

Some say righteousness is impossible to achieve, even having been saved through the Blood of the risen Christ Jesus. Some say that Christ Jesus IS our righteousness.

What say you?

What was the need to overcome the world, if the world was already overcome? And so by saying this, what they are really saying is that Jesus of Nazareth overcame the world, by the God-Nature already in Him, than really what He did was of no significance. Right?

So when the annointing came, the Spirit descending upon Him, thus becoming Jesus the Christ, really then what we have is also not anything of importance, because the Spirit was already there, right?

So really, the story of the NT was nothing but God being raised up, in the "form" of a human, just so He could die on the cross, right?

So man could kill God? And after killing God, God-man could just magically poof Himself out of the grave, right?

Jesus Christ from the point of His first advent is in hypostatic union, meaning that He is both eternal and infinite God and true humanity in one person forever on. The attributes of His deity do not mix with the attributes of his humanity. It was the humanity of Christ that was born and lived a perfect life without sin and which then qualified Him to go to the cross and die a substitutionary spiritual death for the sins of the world. His deity did not die. Deity is not subject to death. Only his humanity died. And with reguard to his physical death, it wasn't the crucifixion that killed him. He of his own volition dismissed his spirit into the presence of the Lord. Luke 23:46.

The Bible is quite clear that our justification is based on faith in Christ.
Titus 3:7; Gal 2:16;, Romans 3:20-28; Rom;4:5; Phil3:9; Romans10:1-10; Rom 4:5.

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

I've always had trouble with Jesus being the absolute God too...while there are places in scripture that might allude to that, there are many more that just state Him as the Son of God.

To the Jews, Son of God and Son of man simply mean servant of God and servant of man.

Do you think Jesus had a God? There are many verses which clearly state that Jesus had a God. If Jesus had a God then anyone who says Jesus is God would make for themselves two Gods.

Besides that, what kind of being would you expect to be a proper substitute for man's error? Probably a man. If God sacrificed himself as a sacrifice to himself... what sense does that make? If God were sinless, would you be surprised? If a Man full of the Holy Spirit, were sinless... wouldn't that be amazing and something we could achieve?
So if God were sacrificed as an atonement to himself that doesn't make sense. Besides, if you look at Rev. 21,22 does Christ ever merge with God in heaven to make the three into one God or is Christ portrayed as separate from God throughout?