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If the Holy Spirit within you does not convict you of the error of a wrathful God . . . nothing I do will succeed either. Negative consequences for failure do NOT imply punishment from a wrathful God, Fundy . . . they just don't. Ignorant prmitives interpreted it that way, period.
No but scripture does. You can't pick and choose scripture. You either believe or you don't to choose scripture is just illogical not to mention without context. Parents can kill their children and blame the bible...husband can kill adulterous wives and blame the bible. It would be helter skelter and even you would be forced to live by your own rules. You could not condemn such acts based on you interpretation or conviction alone? What makes you conviction more important or more correct vs a parent who was led to kill their child. After all like you said, no one can know absolute truth.
You know its funny....you say God is all love and peace, no wrath nor condemnation yet you keep telling people like me that our attitude is going to get us in trouble with God that I might hear, "Depart from me I never knew you"
When you say those things one must ask, where is your all loving, peaceful God?
No but scripture does. You can't pick and choose scripture. You either believe or you don't to choose scripture is just illogical not to mention without context. Parents can kill their children and blame the bible...husband can kill adulterous wives and blame the bible.
Straw men. Understanding the misunderstandings captured in scripture by primitive minds cannot be done by simplistic reading using literal interpretations . . . it must ALL be filtered through the mind of Jesus with the aid of the Holy Spirit If you cannot envision Jesus saying, doing, wanting, asking for, or . . . . whatever . . . then Yahweh did not do any of those things either.
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You know its funny....you say God is all love and peace, no wrath nor condemnation yet you keep telling people like me that our attitude is going to get us in trouble with God that I might hear, "Depart from me I never knew you"
When you say those things one must ask, where is your all loving, peaceful God?
That simply means you have failed. Someone has to "grade" your "state of mind" (resonance). I have no idea what the consequences of failure actually are nor how one corrects those failures nor how long any of that would take. The point is to avoid failure . . . but it is not punishment.
Negative consequences for failure do NOT imply punishment from a wrathful God, Fundy . . . they just don't. Ignorant prmitives interpreted it that way, period.
Jesus:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Does Mystic really believe that Jesus was an ignorant primitive?
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Does Mystic really believe that Jesus was an ignorant primitive?
HK
You just don't get it. The consequences of failure (as graded by God) are real and probably should be feared . . . if you cannot understand the concept of a loving God wanting to help you avoid those consequences. It is blaming the consequences on God that is the misunderstanding. None of the humans in Jesus's day understood the concept of consequences that simply resulted from their actions alone . . . ALL consequences were deemed IMPOSED by either Kings or Pharoahs or God or . . . whatever dominant or Alpha dog existed.(training wheels). Study animal psychology and you will learn that ALL animals naturally view kindness and tenderness and such as WEAKNESS and submissiveness that subjects the weak one to their dominance. Fear was the only motivator for self-control that was operative among the barbarous carnal humans of that time.
You just don't get it. The consequences of failure (as graded by God) are real and probably should be feared . . . if you cannot understand the concept of a loving God wanting to help you avoid those consequences. It is blaming the consequences on God that is the misunderstanding. None of the humans in Jesus's day understood the concept of consequences that simply resulted from their actions alone . . . ALL consequences were deemed IMPOSED by either Kings or Pharoahs or God or . . . whatever dominant or Alpha dog existed.(training wheels). Study animal psychology and you will learn that ALL animals naturally view kindness and tenderness and such as WEAKNESS and submissiveness that subjects the weak one to their dominance. Fear was the only motivator for self-control that was operative among the barbarous carnal humans of that time.
and how do humans today get it? did some how the Holy Spirit figure it out to tell you that it couldn't tell them?
and how do humans today get it? did some how the Holy Spirit figure it out to tell you that it couldn't tell them?
Since you denigrate education and learning, especially evolution . . . you have no conception of the differences in our more evolved cognitive state today compared to what existed in our primitive ancestors. We are vastly more capable of understanding very subtle distinctions that would not have been possible for our carnal ancestors . . . they had trouble digesting milk.
Since you denigrate education and learning, especially evolution . . . you have no conception of the differences in our more evolved cognitive state today compared to what existed in our primitive ancestors. We are vastly more capable of understanding very subtle distinctions that would not have been possible for our carnal ancestors . . . they had trouble digesting milk.
On the contrary it is you who denigrate, you denigrate the ancients. They were a lot more intelligent than you think. Till this day modern man can not figure out how the Egyptians built the Pyramid nor can we duplicate it, or the pantheon in Rome is still standing for thousands of years without any steel bars and yet we have a crumbling infrastructure. The ancients were using drill tools, doing intricate work, performing operations. We marvel at things we invent when in actuality some of it was thought of and lost in history.
You limit the Holy Spirit by saying that He was not powerful enough to portray the "true teaching of God" to them but we here in this "age of enlightenment" have murdered over 200,000,000 people in the 20th century alone. I am sorry but it sounds like you put more stock in modern man than God by putting human reasoning above God's word
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 04-06-2009 at 12:38 PM..
On the contrary it is you who denigrate, you denigrate the ancients. They were a lot more intelligent than you think.
Their intelligence (aptitude) is not in question . . . their cognitive and perceptual development of any intelligence is. Content analysis is one of many techniques for inferring the cognitive sophistication of individuals from their writings. Your assertions simply have no basis in fact.
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Till this day modern man can not figure out how the Egyptians built the Pyramid nor can we duplicate it, or the pantheon in Rome is still standing for thousands of years without any steel bars and yet we have a crumbling infrastructure. The ancients were using drill tools, doing intricate work, performing operations. We marvel at things we invent when in actuality some of it was thought of and lost in history.
Mechanical abilities and talents have little to do with cognitive sophistication. The difference between a skilled and inventive mechanic and a fully educated mechanical engineer is entirely in their cognitive sophistication.
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You limit the Holy Spirit by saying that He was not powerful enough to portray the "true teaching of God" to them
No. The limited knowledge and cognitive sophistication of the "receivers" limits what the Holy spirit can convey to them. It is still true today. Which is why I say follow what the Holy Spirit guides you to understand because it is geared to your level of cognitive sophistication and capabilities . . . as long as it leads you to love of God and each other.
On the contrary it is you who denigrate, you denigrate the ancients. They were a lot more intelligent than you think. Till this day modern man can not figure out how the Egyptians built the Pyramid nor can we duplicate it, or the pantheon in Rome is still standing for thousands of years without any steel bars and yet we have a crumbling infrastructure. The ancients were using drill tools, doing intricate work, performing operations. We marvel at things we invent when in actuality some of it was thought of and lost in history.
You limit the Holy Spirit by saying that He was not powerful enough to portray the "true teaching of God" to them but we here in this "age of enlightenment" have murdered over 200,000,000 people in the 20th century alone. I am sorry but it sounds like you put more stock in modern man than God by putting human reasoning above God's word
The ancients understood mathmatics and such, but remember Fundy, they were BARRED from the Tree of Life. Mosy don't understand this, but in a round about way, it is what Mystic is saying. You now have access to what was lost, forever restored by Christ Jesus. Can you imagine in that day, having NO spiritual access to the Father, except hat was given to CERTAIN men, for His Purpose? Well, for over 4000 years, they operated their lives in that perpetual state of darkness. Welcome to the LIGHT, and He has a Name above ALL others.
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