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Location: Went around the corner & now I'm lost!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeAhike
Why so many denominations that clearly have developed differently?
I only know scripture. I thank God everyday for not allowing me into church teachings and had me learn directly from Him through his Holy Spirit; not man. Otherwise I would confused about what his word says also.
Children conceive God to be their Heavenly Father, filled with Love, who always reaches out to them His Hand of support and protection. In a similar way they also believe that all adults are good and helping, and only after many warnings and bad experiences they realize that it is not so. These bad experiences, and this resulting distrust, are also projected upon God. The image of God disappears with the childlike faith. A few people manage to distinguish between both things, and they keep up an absolute faith, full of trust, a faith we call "blind faith."
Although distrust may be a vital attitude for survival amongst men, it is an absurd attitude in front of the Heavenly Father. We can only win, we cannot lose anything. It is that lack of trust, which lifts up the barriers of ice around the soul, and it may be the cause why the warm Love of God needs so much time to open up a way to our heart.
- need to buy myself another technical device to fool my perceptions?
I only know scripture. I thank God everyday for not allowing me into church teachings and had me learn directly from Him through his Holy Spirit; not man. Otherwise I would confused about what his word says also.
I am thankful that my experience is different from yours.
I can't believe some of the posts I read on this forum.
Rarely do I see Christ's teachings/words referenced, FWIW.
Children conceive God to be their Heavenly Father, filled with Love, . .
only if the truthfulness of Gods Word is rejected
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
Matthew 15:18
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'
Mark 7:20-22
"What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.
This is the condition we are concieved into:
Romans 7:18
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.
Matthew 15:18
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'
Mark 7:20-22
"What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly.
This is the condition we are concieved into:
Romans 7:18
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Jesus became the Christ because He fulfilled the Law of Divine Love and now it can be ours. Divine Love eradicates sin and the desire to sin. That is the gift Jesus returned to us. If someone knew of this gift, why would they turn it down just because it isn't in the bible? No man can save you from sin and no sacrifice can do that either. It is a thing between God and man ONLY. Jesus restored the gift, told us how to receive it and now that it's ours for the asking, why would one not want it? I know this works and I know without a doubt, I am a child of God, becoming sin free. I have no sins but I am not without sin. Does anyone who reads the bible understand that? I have asked before but have yet to receive an answer.
This Bible has changed and perverted the whole plan of God for the salvation of man, and has substituted a plan that arose from the limited wisdom of those who attempted to convince mankind that they had a knowledge of God and of His designs as to the creation and destiny of man; and they were influenced very largely in this particular by their knowledge of and belief in the teachings of the Jewish church and the history of the Jewish race in its dealings with God, as they supposed, and in the teachings of the Scribes and Pharisees. This fact was conspicuously shown by these writers attempting to substitute Jesus in their plan of salvation in the place of the animals in sacrifice in the Jewish plan of salvation. As the God of the Jews in order to be appeased and satisfactorily worshiped, demanded blood and more blood, so the God, that Jesus declared was the God of all the peoples of the earth, in order to be appeased and satisfactorily worshiped, demand blood and that the blood of His dearly beloved son. Among these writings of the Bible there are many things declared to be truths, and embodied as the actual words of God, that are contradictory and unexplainable, and which, if they were the words of God, or even the teachings of Jesus, would contain no contradiction, or admit of any constructions that were not consistent one with the other.
A: The fact that is we are concieved in sin. Because of that it doesn't matter about the actions of the individual or cognoscente of them. That is the sin of the day-old baby.
I see. A baby's sin is in being born. Would that be accurate?
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2. How would God punish a day-old child who died?
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A: Two ways --- Physical death and eternal death. "The wages of sin is death"
We're talking about a day-old child who dies. It makes no sense to say that God will punish a child who dies with physical death. That's redundant. In what way will this child's death be eternal? Do you believe that a day-old child that dies will spend eternity in Hell?
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3. If God would not punish a day-old child who has sinned, but would punish an adult who has sinned, how is God just?
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A: Because your question is based on the false premise that God isn't serious about his command...BE perfect... not BECOME perfect and be a 'god'. God is holy, he therfore commands that. Its not about "all you can do" when you're guilty from the time we have been concieved. That is the law.
It may be the law, but it's not an answer to my question. Don't try to second-guess what I'm thinking and don't put words in my mouth, okay? I'll give you the same respect. If I understand you correctly, you believe God will punish a day-old child who dies with eternal death. Apparently, then, God is just after all. At least he condemns children and adults alike, even the ones whose only sin was to be born. That may be "just," but I'm not sure it's particularly merciful or loving.
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4. Why did God tell us that we needed to become like a little child to enter the Kingdom?
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A. Because Jesus is speaking of our spiritual trust in him, not the physical family structure. We are to trust his word;
that salvation is by faith not works.
salvation is found in him, not a church.
That all was revealed neccessary for salvation, that no other revelation is required.
That not all roads lead to heaven.
The work that God requires is this: to believe!
Faith as like a child accepts this as truth....the self-righteous, work righteous, the wicked does not accept it.
Why are you going off on a tangent? I said nothing about (a) salvation being found in a church, (b) more revelation being required, or (c) all roads leading to heaven. I asked a simple, straightforward question and yet you skirted the issue in every possible way. If children are sinful, why did God tell us to be like them? I'm sorry, but if the question doesn't make sense to you, just ask me to rephrase it and try to avoid responding with comments that have nothing whatsoever to do with the question.
Any God that believes an infant is wicked and deserves eternal punishment if it dies . . . is no God of mine or any other sane and decent human being. Sometimes the things I read on this forum sicken me and scare me to death. I weep for any human . . . that rejects the love of God for this evil primitive fear, wrath and punishment belief that can only be the work of Satan. Fear drives out love . . . and that is Satan's goal.
[/b][/i]
I see. A baby's sin is in being born. Would that be accurate?
No you don't see, because that isn't accurate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
[/We're talking about a day-old child who dies. It makes no sense to say that God will punish a child who dies with physical death. That's redundant. In what way will this child's death be eternal? Do you believe that a day-old child that dies will spend eternity in Hell?
What makes no sense? That a wage is something earned? The wages of sin is death. Do I believe a day old child that dies can spend eternity in hell? Let me answer this way ( from a positive view)
Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God. Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
What the mother hears reaches the baby. "Faith comes from hearing and hear the Word of God" Romans 10:17. For King David to say that "you be my God since the womb" required that the message had to have been heard and recieved by the mother.
That then would answer the question. If the mother is of a religion that doesn't teach the truth (truth defined by which only teaches by faith as Jesus as our subsitute) but she believes in some works righteous, law orientated, "doing all you can do", that you can become a god of your own planet, or believes in some other false god like Buddha, Mohamed, Eastern cult, or a false teaching of Jesus i.e he isn't God, triune or he is our example....then yes there is no indication that faith ever reached the day old child. and that child will be sent to hell. As God said"
Leviticus 4:13 " 'If the whole Israelite community sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands,even though the community is unaware of the matter, they are guilty.' "
Nobody will be able to plead ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
[/It may be the law, but it's not an answer to my question. Don't try to second-guess what I'm thinking and don't put words in my mouth, okay? I'll give you the same respect. If I understand you correctly, you believe God will punish a day-old child who dies with eternal death. Apparently, then, God is just after all. At least he condemns children and adults alike, even the ones whose only sin was to be born. That may be "just," but I'm not sure it's particularly merciful or loving.
I take God seriously, for he takes sin seriously. The law isn't merciful or loving. Gods wrath is just, so to whom he shows his mercy. I do not take any pleasure in anybody being condemned to hell at any age, nor does God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
[/Why are you going off on a tangent? I said nothing about (a) salvation being found in a church, (b) more revelation being required, or (c) all roads leading to heaven. I asked a simple, straightforward question and yet you skirted the issue in every possible way. If children are sinful, why did God tell us to be like them? I'm sorry, but if the question doesn't make sense to you, just ask me to rephrase it and try to avoid responding with comments that have nothing whatsoever to do with the question.
Let me re-ask this way,
What is it that didn't make Gods Word clear to you?
Last edited by twin.spin; 04-09-2009 at 11:07 PM..
Any God that believes an infant is wicked and deserves eternal punishment if it dies . . . is no God of mine or any other sane and decent human being. Sometimes the things I read on this forum sicken me and scare me to death. I weep for any human . . . that rejects the love of God for this evil primitive fear, wrath and punishment belief that can only be the work of Satan. Fear drives out love . . . and that is Satan's goal.
Well, I can understand that. Satan's biggest weapon against humans is their intelligence. How else can one blow off God's wrath and punishment against sin?
Jesus said, "Ipraise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure."
I weep for those who call evil... good and good... evil.
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Has the DESIRE to do what is good eh?
Of course nothing is good in the SINFUL NATURE (duh)
So Jesus doesn't bring intention - just the ability to carry it out.
Good observation.
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- need to buy myself another technical device to fool my perceptions?
